United 77Ws Aviation400 vs. NG

[Jazajia]

My first 777-300s, and my first model made by the current version of Aviation400. I have never been particularly impressed with anything associated with the Aviation400 brand, and that remains true, unfortunately.

Granted, I have not seen their A380s and their new magnetic landing gears. I also would love to get my hands on one of the Lan Chile 747s they released in a previous life.

Versus Series Vol. 7: United Airlines 777-300ER Aviation400 vs. NG Models

This is an excellent model comparison opportunity since it involves two recent - almost simultaneous - releases of virtually the same aircraft, except for the registration, by two brands that have a strong following. However, one of the contenders happens to be my first model made by the most...

www.yankeevictor400.com

 

[YesterAirlines]

You weren't very mean . I thought you would be harsher. You say you aren't very impressed but when I read the review the AV400 has almost as many plus points as the NG if you exclude your personal dislike of the interactive elements. To my eye they both look like models near the top of the quality spectrum in 400 scale. I think you're right the NG is probably a little better but the AV400 version is very good as well.

As an 'apologist' for both brands I guess I love both my 'children' as much as each other just in different ways - ha ha!

I'm intrigued by the talk of the fuselage. I have never seen it and even though it has been mentioned I've never seen any evidence to support it. Anyone got the calipers out???

 

[keji833]

You weren't very mean . I thought you would be harsher. You say you aren't very impressed but when I read the review the AV400 has almost as many plus points as the NG if you exclude your personal dislike of the interactive elements. To my eye they both look like models near the top of the quality spectrum in 400 scale. I think you're right the NG is probably a little better but the AV400 version is very good as well.

As an 'apologist' for both brands I guess I love both my 'children' as much as each other just in different ways - ha ha!

I'm intrigued by the talk of the fuselage. I have never seen it and even though it has been mentioned I've never seen any evidence to support it. Anyone got the calipers out???

Unfortunately, it's very very evident that AV400 777's fuselage falls too narrow compared to NG, JC, and PH. This alone is a major failure that would bring an otherwise very good mould down to 5/10 because it means they got the most basic moulding completely wrong.

According to a post done by another collector with measurements using a caliper: "For fuselage, immediately obvious is AV400 is narrower than other 777s. they do indeed lead to the problem of distorting the proportions of a 77W, which leads to an undesirable side effect that will be displayed below" (post 1, last sentence)

 

[YesterAirlines]

It isn't very very evident at all - that is rubbish. I haven't ever noticed it and I spend probably as much, if not more time staring at these models as anyone.

By those stats quoted it appears to be 0.4mm which is a nonsense amount to suggest it has any impact whatsoever. There are reasons to criticise the AV400 77W (and I don't really disagree with Jorge in his outcome) but taking measurements with a caliper with differences of less than a mm and holding them up as important is laughable.

I've got 6 AV400 77Ws on display often next to the 7 JC Wings 77Ws and 7 Phoenix 77Ws I own and you'd struggle to tell them apart if it wasn't for some obvious detail differences in terms of print and the nav beacons. I just took this shot. All 3 777s on show here are from different brands. They all look effectively the same in terms of dimensions:

 

[YesterAirlines]

Very very evident? Really! I'd say completely imperceptible.

 

[keji833]

I think this issue has been discussed before and most people recognize it (Citrus mentioned it as well in his top 10 model of 2022 video). I'm presenting facts for people to see but whether it's tolerable depends on oneself.

In my case, it's very obvious hence why I've offloaded all my AV400 777 except the ANA Starwar one which I have yet to find a replacement.

However, I must warn fellow collectors about overpaying. AV400 777 in the Chinese market is about ¥150 lower than NG and PH, which is more than $20 difference and almost seems like a scam to me when they are priced the same as NG in the American market (you always get what you pay for).

 

[YesterAirlines]

I think this issue has been discussed before and most people recognize it (Citrus mentioned it as well in his top 10 model of 2022 video). I'm presenting facts for people to see but whether it's tolerable depends on oneself.

In my case, it's very obvious hence why I've offloaded all my AV400 777 except the ANA Starwar one which I have yet to find a replacement.

However, I must warn fellow collectors about overpaying. AV400 777 in the Chinese market is about ¥150 lower than NG and PH, which is more than $20 difference and almost seems like a scam to me when they are priced the same as NG in the American market (you always get what you pay for).

JC Wings and Panda are also historically priced substantially lower in China as well. Prices vary substantially between different geographic areas as is shown by the Gemini pricing inside and outside the USA. It is not a scam for AV400 anymore than it is for other brands.

The general opinion of AV400 in the West is that they are one of the best brands, which is easily demonstrated by their models. Whether you like or dislike the extra features is very subjective, and I can take or leave them myself, but the suggestion that they are inferior to anyone but NG is a little laughable. I would say that this outrageous intolerable fuselage width issue is something recognised by a microscopic number of people and recognised as at all worthwhile by an even smaller number.

I have seen some of the criticism from within China and it sounds very stupid, but then again that is a market that appears to think Phoenix are competitive. If you seriously are buying a Phoenix 77W over a AV400 one then you have very strange taste! Just the other day some people on here were decrying the JC 777 in a similar OTT fashion. The reality is that all the 77Ws from NG, AV, JC are excellent moulds and I find the level of pedantry bizarre considering some of the complete dross being presented as a 400 scale model.

 

[keji833]

I think enough has been discussed that collectors should be able to form their own opinions. Back to the original post, I found the author's summary very well put which echos my perception:

"Despite the AV400 having the upper hand in the title font and, maybe, the colors, the overall look of the NG example is more refined and sober, and the model as a whole is ultimately easier on my eyes. AV400 numerous oversized details, including the beacon jewel, combined with the unrefined cockpit windows, wing joints, and engines make it seem as if they are trying to enhance a rather ordinary product with gimmicks; smoke and mirrors if you will." (last section, third paragraph)

 

[Jazajia]

You weren't very mean . I thought you would be harsher. You say you aren't very impressed but when I read the review the AV400 has almost as many plus points as the NG if you exclude your personal dislike of the interactive elements. To my eye they both look like models near the top of the quality spectrum in 400 scale. I think you're right the NG is probably a little better but the AV400 version is very good as well.

As an 'apologist' for both brands I guess I love both my 'children' as much as each other just in different ways - ha ha!

I'm intrigued by the talk of the fuselage. I have never seen it and even though it has been mentioned I've never seen any evidence to support it. Anyone got the calipers out???

You know what, I was expecting the AV400 to be better than the NG one. NG 777s are known for that slightly odd front section and - almost- everyone on Facebook has nothing but wonderful things to say about AV400. But when I saw it in the flesh all I could say was: "Really guys?"

The only thing preventing me from straight up calling Aviation400 a cheap Chinese brand (or simply a cheap brand for those in China) was your affair with them (you know, sort of an unwritten rule there ) and the fact that Phantom gave their A380s his thumbs up. I don't think a single 77W was enough to form a strong opinion of the brand.

I think the people who praise this mold are probably more after the cool factor than an accurate representation of a 777-300. And there is nothing wrong with that. Also, I would not refrain from purchasing an AV400 77W if they are the only option. But if anyone asks me which of the two I recommend, the clear answer is NG.

By the way, I have to applaud NG for tweaking the front section. Not sure if it is the cockpit window printing alone, or if there is some mold polishing involved, but whatever they did looks good.

 

[Phantom]

I'm late to the party. Am I allowed to flood this thread with some of my pictures?
Most everything has been said. In my opinion, NG's mould is WAY better than AV400's in most any regard. AV400 however wins on colors and title printing.

77WNG1 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr
77WAV1 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr
77WNGAV4 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr
77WNGAV3 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr
77WNGAV2 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr

Not a big friend of bringing a sensor too close to the models, but here you go with some close ups...
Cockpits - AV400 falls way short here:
77WNGAV1 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr

Let's take a look a the printing - both are very nice - to the naked eye anyways - but NG have the edge when magnified
77WNG4 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr
77WAV4 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr

Stepping on the 2L boarding stairs to get a good look at the engines - amazing spinner detail on the AV400:
77WAV2 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr
77WNG2 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr

And finally, a look at the main gears - NG has got the 777-300ER specific actuator, AV400 not. This just for the VERY detail...
77WAV3 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr
77WNG3 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr

 

[Phantom]

Here's one of my pics of the real N2534U - early morning arrival at Nuremberg runway 28, behind is sistership N2748U that had just landed at runway 10.
040720_n2534u_1920 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr

 

[Phantom]

I'm intrigued by the talk of the fuselage. I have never seen it and even though it has been mentioned I've never seen any evidence to support it. Anyone got the calipers out???

Sure
Fuselage width at 2L doors:
AV400: 15.02mm
NG: 15.61mm
Should be: 15.5mm

 

[YesterAirlines]

Those are great photos Phantom.

The reason the maingear actuator is short on the AV400 is because of the pivot action. I don't disagree that the NG has the edge but these are fine margins. Both are excellent moulds and the AV400 is definitely not inferior to the NG in all details at all. For example in relation to the tailcone the AV400 is definitely better. The detail of the AV400 nosegear leg is better too. The NG has better maingear, better sized aerials and as you said wingroot. Otherwise the moulds are basically even.

For people that like interactive features the nav beacons, spinning blades and pivot gear (and soon mag gear) are all things that make the AV400 competitive. They don't sway my purchasing of it but none of them offend me either.

On the print front the AV400 holds it own in most areas and has better printing on the engines and better colours.

It is the slightly hyperbolic language being used here that gets my backup. That AV400 77W is not WAY inferior to the NG and the suggestion that they are a cheap brand Jorge is rubbish. If that is what you call a cheap brand then I would expect to see much stronger language being used by you in relation to GJ, JC, AC, PH - all of which are inferior in many ways to the product AV400 is producing and almost across the board too.

In relation to the fuselage width the 0.4mm difference is not at all noticeable.

 

[Phantom]

It isn't very very evident at all - that is rubbish. I haven't ever noticed it and I spend probably as much, if not more time staring at these models as anyone.

By those stats quoted it appears to be 0.4mm which is a nonsense amount to suggest it has any impact whatsoever. There are reasons to criticise the AV400 77W (and I don't really disagree with Jorge in his outcome) but taking measurements with a caliper with differences of less than a mm and holding them up as important is laughable.

Richard, just because it isn't obvious to you doesn't make it a laughable nonsense. I can easily tell a dimensional difference of 2% or less apart - proven this in my daily job many times - and I'm sure others can as well. Here we're at 3-4%. Of course this isn't worth having an argument about.
My impression of the AV400 is just that it feels kind of "crude" in contrast to the NG. Gears, nose, wings or v.tail just to name some areas. Still the AV400 certainly is far from being a bad mould and it's nice to see collectors having a choice of what to buy. AV400 seems to more and more go the "gimmicky" way. I personally have no use for pivoting gear trucks, magnetic gears or for red jewel beacons - especially not when the real thing doesn't even have red housings for their anti-col. lights (787, 350) But I perfectly understand there's a market for.

 

[YesterAirlines]

Richard, just because it isn't obvious to you doesn't make it a laughable nonsense. I can easily tell a dimensional difference of 2% or less apart - proven this in my daily job many times - and I'm sure others can as well. Here we're at 3-4%. Of course this isn't worth having an argument about.
My impression of the AV400 is just that it feels kind of "crude" in contrast to the NG. Gears, nose, wings or v.tail just to name some areas. Still the AV400 certainly is far from being a bad mould and it's nice to see collectors having a choice of what to buy. AV400 seems to more and more go the "gimmicky" way. I personally have no use for pivoting gear trucks, magnetic gears or for red jewel beacons - especially not when the real thing doesn't even have red housings for their anti-col. lights (787, 350) But I perfectly understand there's a market for.

I don't disagree with the majority of what you say aside from the:

'I'm sure others can as well'

It's fairly evident that your eye for detail far outstrips that of the vast majority of collectors and probably human beings frankly. Both a blessing and a curse - but mostly a blessing I'd have thought.

I'm on the fence about the gimmicks. Given a choice I'd probably agree with you but done well (and AV400 is doing them about as well as they can be done (aside from the aerial size)) they are inoffensive and the jewel lights I quite like. The magnetic gear seems like a decent option too but I don't expect it to be important for me.

 

[LachieHare]

Just chiming in with my two cents worth (Australian dollars) but the two KLM 777-300ERs from AV400 are two of the best models I own and I have to agree with Richard that the AV400 mould is not way inferior to the NG offering and to me, just a run of the mill collector, 0.5mm is nothing I'm going to lose sleep over.

 

[Jazajia]

I'm late to the party. Am I allowed to flood this thread with some of my pictures?
Most everything has been said. In my opinion, NG's mould is WAY better than AV400's in most any regard. AV400 however wins on colors and title printing.

77WNG1 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr
77WAV1 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr
77WNGAV4 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr
77WNGAV3 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr
77WNGAV2 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr

Not a big friend of bringing a sensor too close to the models, but here you go with some close ups...
Cockpits - AV400 falls way short here:
77WNGAV1 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr

Let's take a look a the printing - both are very nice - to the naked eye anyways - but NG have the edge when magnified
77WNG4 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr
77WAV4 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr

Stepping on the 2L boarding stairs to get a good look at the engines - amazing spinner detail on the AV400:
77WAV2 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr
77WNG2 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr

And finally, a look at the main gears - NG has got the 777-300ER specific actuator, AV400 not. This just for the VERY detail...
77WAV3 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr
77WNG3 by Alexander Kern, auf Flickr

Those are some of the best model photos that I have seen. I tried looking on Flickr for your photo equipment, but could not find it.

 

[Jazajia]

For example in relation to the tailcone the AV400 is definitely better.

Definitely? I'd say it may be better depending on what you are after. Unfortunately, it seems that AV400 does not have the means required to properly replicate such details in 1:400 scale, at least on a 777. For people who love a high level of detail at the expense of precise proportions, then yes, it is definitely better. I prefer NG's approach though.

Hey nothing wrong with any of this, let me re-emphasize. One diorama that I am currently working on is exactly that, very detailed, and very imprecise/disproportionate.

The detail of the AV400 nosegear leg is better too. The NG has better maingear, better sized aerials and as you said wingroot. Otherwise the moulds are basically even.

The nose gear leg is actually better on the AV400, thanks, I did not pay attention to it. Likewise, I did not pay attention to the spiner markings that @Phantom pointed out, impressive indeed.

For people that like interactive features the nav beacons, spinning blades and pivot gear (and soon mag gear) are all things that make the AV400 competitive. They don't sway my purchasing of it but none of them offend me either.

Agreed.

That AV400 77W is not WAY inferior to the NG

Hey watch out! NG has been showing those claws of theirs recently (again...) Can they turn as nasty as AK???? Keep poking them, I wanna see

and the suggestion that they are a cheap brand Jorge is rubbish. If that is what you call a cheap brand then I would expect to see much stronger language being used by you in relation to GJ, JC, AC, PH - all of which are inferior in many ways to the product AV400 is producing and almost across the board too.

In relation to the fuselage width the 0.4mm difference is not at all noticeable.

It is not rubbish Richard, it is my opinion, based on my perceptions. When I say a brand is cheap I am not talking only about their product, but I also take into account their "substance." But I'll give it to you, my weird personal brand categorization should stay out of this, after one last rant .

Aviation400 is not what I would call a premium brand and their recent United 77W is not what I would call a premium product. All the cool gimmicks the model comes with look a bit misplaced in such a crude mold, and the package does not help as it screams cheap mystery meat brand from China, as everything I have ever seen thus far from them does. Not an awful model by any means, but it couldn't be further from what I thought it would be based on "all the hype."

Maybe I should get another one of their models, maybe an A380, to get a better feel of the "current AV400"

 

[keji833]

Here we're at 3-4%.

Sorry I have to chip in again because we are at 6%, not 3-4%. Why? Because the fuselage width is different from the length, for width, we need to look at the cross-section area. This is important because a very small deviation in width can result in a major difference in illusion. Using your data, assuming a round cross-section, this should be calculated as (pi*(15.5/2)^2-pi*(15.02/2)^2)/(pi*(15.5/2)^2) = 0.06097648283 ~= 6.1% (very simple math).

Sorry if I seem very nit-picking, but it is indeed very very obvious to me when I look at them side by side from NG 77w, and 6% is beyond acceptable.

Imagine if we are talking about length, 6% on a 1:400 77w translates to over 1cm difference, would you accept something that's 1cm shorter than it should be?

 

[pons399]

I think enough has been discussed that collectors should be able to form their own opinions. Back to the original post, I found the author's summary very well put which echos my perception:

"Despite the AV400 having the upper hand in the title font and, maybe, the colors, the overall look of the NG example is more refined and sober, and the model as a whole is ultimately easier on my eyes. AV400 numerous oversized details, including the beacon jewel, combined with the unrefined cockpit windows, wing joints, and engines make it seem as if they are trying to enhance a rather ordinary product with gimmicks; smoke and mirrors if you will." (last section, third paragraph)

Yep this pretty much sums up AV vs NG, only thing I'd add is the oversized aerials. AV struggles with this even more than other non-NG brands, whose aerials are also oversized to begin with.

Still, AV's general mould quality and extra features do make them a solid 2nd choice. Certainly better than JC/GJ, PH and AC.