Aeroclassics November 2022 speculation thread

Yeah, I wonder what happened to that People Express and the PE/Continental hybrid from a few months ago?
 
Hello everyone, Midwest (owner of the forum) here.

Just wanted to chime in on what happened earlier today and say that on behalf of the forum it's inappropriate to limit discussions or content on the forum based on a member's personal grievance and that it's inappropriate to take a formal public stance on behalf of this forum or admins of the forum against another forum. Within reasonable limits, we are looking to have free speech on MAF.

I'm going to go on a limb and assume that the average collector has no interest in conversations pertaining to personal grievances between members. I also firmly believe that no collector needs to take sides towards something of that nature. We're all here because of our shared interest in aviation and collecting 1/400 models.

In terms of link sharing, the MAF staff has decided that it is acceptable to post links to other websites (including other forums) when it relates to the topic/conversation you are engaging with. At this time sharing links or discussing other forums will not be an issue unless it comes off as spam/inappropriate/irrelevant. Essentially we aren't interested in limiting the content on the forum as long as the content is reasonable for MAF.

Furthermore, I would like to express how happy I have been with the MAF community by and large. Our conversations and content as a community have been incredibly fun to interact with and helpful in many cases.

As a note, we have modified our staff list for MAF due to concerns expressed by several members. No members have been banned today but we have made warnings to respective members regarding keeping content relevant, avoiding unnecessary censorship, and keeping the forum civil. Thank you all for your patience.
 
Midwest said:
Hello everyone, Midwest (owner of the forum) here.

Just wanted to chime in on what happened earlier today and say that on behalf of the forum it's inappropriate to limit discussions or content on the forum based on a member's personal grievance and that it's inappropriate to take a formal public stance on behalf of this forum or admins of the forum against another forum. Within reasonable limits, we are looking to have free speech on MAF.

I'm going to go on a limb and assume that the average collector has no interest in conversations pertaining to personal grievances between members. I also firmly believe that no collector needs to take sides towards something of that nature. We're all here because of our shared interest in aviation and collecting 1/400 models.

In terms of link sharing, the MAF staff has decided that it is acceptable to post links to other websites (including other forums) when it relates to the topic/conversation you are engaging with. At this time sharing links or discussing other forums will not be an issue unless it comes off as spam/inappropriate/irrelevant. Essentially we aren't interested in limiting the content on the forum as long as the content is reasonable for MAF.

Furthermore, I would like to express how happy I have been with the MAF community by and large. Our conversations and content as a community have been incredibly fun to interact with and helpful in many cases.

As a note, we have modified our staff list for MAF due to concerns expressed by several members. No members have been banned today but we have made warnings to respective members regarding keeping content relevant, avoiding unnecessary censorship, and keeping the forum civil. Thank you all for your patience.
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While this is your website, and so you can make the decisions you feel appropriate, this site was originally begun as a partnership between Connor, yourself and me. As such I expected my feelings to be taken into account and that includes not supporting those who have attacked me historically and made my life difficult for no other reason than they dislike me discussing models. I strive to be fair in that discussion but I cannot allow the assaults on me to continue and it doesn't seem unfair in my eye to not actively support the offenders at other sites.

I am sorry that you do not care to take into account the history of persecution I have suffered and instead prefer to sit on the fence and plead ignorance. To you they may be personal grievances but to me they have been ongoing assaults, which I had hoped this forum would be a haven from.

I cannot participate in a forum where there is this lack of empathy, support and trust. I appreciate the concept of MAF however free speech which protects your own personal interests and not mine isn't of value.
 
I am very sorry to see that this forum has driven out the man who essentially brought, I suspect, a lot of us over. Richard Stretton's fair, objective, and unbiased reviews, and detailed historiography, are an extremely important part of this hobby. They very much figure into my own willingness to put considerable money into the hobby. Richard has indeed suffered persecution elsewhere, and his concerns about other forums are not "personal grievances." If he is made to feel unwelcome here, I will need to reevaluate my own participation.
 
As the person who in some way caused this, I honestly completely disagree that such a decision can be made after one discussion with a regular member. No insults or treaths were ever given yesterday so it was all within the forum rules of free speech. Richard and I have send eachother a PM and it was made clear there was a lack of understanding (from me especially) that caused it to get out of hand. And just like Richard said, this forum started as a partnership between MMS, RRA and RS, so I find it unfair that the decision does not seem to consider Richard's background, as I think you all already knew what happened at DAC before this website started.

If this really is a friendly forum with free speech, then how can Richard get punished for making use of this rule?
 
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As much as I appreciate Richard's contribution and hate the 400SH rhetoric and hypocrisy I believe imitating their poor example of bias is nothing this forum and the 1/400 collectorate will benefit from. Biased forums like 400SH are losing members every day. Let's keep this place friendly and open to everyone and everything (like mentioning 400SH or DA.C from time to time) and MAF will flourish.
 
Let’s bring it back to our roots, discussing model aircraft. New AeroClassics released expect for this upcoming Friday, really eager to see what’s to come out of these. Will be interesting to see if it’s more modern or retro aircraft.
 
Mark22 said:
As the person who in some way caused this, I honestly completely disagree that such a decision can be made after one discussion with a regular member. No insults or treaths were ever given yesterday so it was all within the forum rules of free speech. Richard and I have send eachother a PM and it was made clear there was a lack of understanding (from me especially) that caused it to get out of hand. And just like Richard said, this forum started as a partnership between MMS, RRA and RS, so I find it unfair that the decision does not seem to consider Richard's background, as I think you all already knew what happened at DAC before this website started.

If this really is a friendly forum with free speech, then how can Richard get punished for making use of this rule?
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He is still welcome on MAF as a member, while Richard did work with us to launch the forum there was no understanding that a staff member of the forum would use his position to defend/offend values of a personal debate and especially not to use the privileges as a moderator to censor and pressure members to take sides of an outside debate. Being a MAF staff member is not the place to take a formal public stance on behalf of this forum's members or staff against other people/forums.

We didn't want to remove Richard as a staff member, we believe it was the appropriate thing to do. As mentioned, his privileges to contribute and post on MAF have not been affected assuming the content is related to model aircraft or aviation.

Nevertheless, this forum is about model collecting. I'm looking forward to seeing what AeroClassics puts out in this release.
 
Midwest said:
He is still welcome on MAF as a member, while Richard did work with us to launch the forum there was no understanding that a staff member of the forum would use his position to defend/offend values of a personal debate and especially not to use the privileges as a moderator to censor and pressure members to take sides of an outside debate. Being a MAF staff member is not the place to take a formal public stance on behalf of this forum's members or staff against other people/forums.

We didn't want to remove Richard as a staff member, we believe it was the appropriate thing to do. As mentioned, his privileges to contribute and post on MAF have not been affected assuming the content is related to model aircraft or aviation.

Nevertheless, this forum is about model collecting. I'm looking forward to seeing what AeroClassics puts out in this release.
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One of the main reasons Richard was involved in setting up this forum, was to get away from those that made personal slanderous attacks on him and we can now all have a free voice to discuss models on here, whether good or bad. Therefore it was right to make him a moderator, so that any such posts could be 'moderated' by him and we could keep this forum free from those people (should they be allowed to register). This would be especially beneficial having two moderators on both sides of the Atlantic with time differences, so at least one can keep an eye on the forum. Any other 'staff member' may not care about such posts, but we need to keep those people out (and you know who they are!). Please reinstate Richard as a staff member/moderator?
 
Trying to keep my feelings in check in reference to the upcoming releases. Hopefully I’m not disappointed.
 
I am coming late but I have a few words that I'd like to extend to @YesterAirlines:

Richard, congratulations on the wonderful work that you do with your website. I find it very noble that someone thought about documenting the history of small-scale model collecting and producing top-notch, well-researched, and well-written literature on the hobby. The first time I came across your website was in the middle of my collecting hiatus, I was researching something about Viasa, unrelated to scale model collecting, but when I saw it I could not believe my eyes as I sympathized 100% with the concept of documenting aviation history through die-cast models, and you have done an excellent job with it. I think it is obvious, but to make it official, your website is one of the main inspirations behind my own, and I still visit YesterdayAirlines regularly. So for that, you have earned my respect and admiration.

With that in mind, you have the absolute right to feel like an important influencer in the hobby, because you are. However, I think you are taking it a bit too far by suggesting that we should take sides with you and that those of us that remain neutral are by default not supporting you. I really wish you could take a deep breath and realize that it is simply not true.

I was really excited when I saw the MAF intro video in which you and the other two creators indicated that this was just a hobby, and as such, it was pretty pointless to allow drama and passions to get in the way of enjoying it; just like it has happened many times before over at DA.C and 400SH. I knew, however, that because of your prominent position in the hobby, you had been involved in some nasty arguments (whether you were right or wrong is not relevant here) and because of that, it was going to take some effort on your part to let go of those feelings and remain neutral. As a moderator, it is important to be partial, as it also is if we are to truly break away from the history of drama that has surrounded the forums of this hobby for decades.

I only know you as a collector, but I get the feeling that this might be more like a business for you instead of a hobby. If that is the case maybe you are not in the best position to be a forum moderator, and that is okay Richard. I for one won't think less of you because of that. Or maybe @Midwest and @redriveraviation could give you a second chance? @Adrian is correct in saying that a moderator from a different continent is needed to provide around-the-clock moderation. What I would really hate is to see you go. Not only because we will be missing out on the wealth of knowledge that you have on this hobby, but also because the whole situation will leave a bad taste in our mouths for a while.

I have a lot of model stuff to go through, but I took the time to write this because I think it is important for you to understand that we do care about your feelings, even though we might not show it in the way you want to be shown.
 
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