Opinion on Phoenix June 2023 Releases

Jazajia

Well-known member
I was going to post this on the respective thread, but since this is an opinion that could also be applied to release sets from other months, I decided to create a dedicated thread to facilitate discussion. Not to mention that Richard has pretty much hijacked the original thread with a bunch of highly opinionated posts.
 
Like most have said already, in terms of liveries, Phoenix is not afraid of anything, and it keeps knocking it out of the park consistently every month. We all know their molds are not the best available. However, they are not the only ugly molds out there, just the ones that for whatever reason get attacked the most. More importantly, seems like by and large the people that like the models still get them regardless the passionate comments that follow every killer release set they announce. So, kudos to the collectors that still buy what makes them happy, I know sometimes it can be difficult to focus on the selection process of what is it that you truly want to add to your collection, with all the noise going on online.

Now, I personally would like to talk about something slightly different, but applicable to this situation.

Clearly, collectors want more classic releases than what it is being offered. We want airframes from the eighties and nineties wearing the iconic liveries from that era. By and large, this hobby is about nostalgia, and models are a way to keep alive cherished memories of the airplanes that you can’t see taxiing around an airport or flying overhead anymore. Sure, there are many young collectors fabricating their own memories right now, so they want die-cast models of current aircraft types and liveries. But watch most of those collectors wanting those same types and liveries of today ten years from now, and most manufacturers not releasing them anymore under the “it’s already been done” argument (history has a way of repeating itself).

Phoenix is the only brand that seems to recognize the importance of exploiting nostalgia, and their release sets seem to come from a JustPlane’s video, or an Airliners.net gallery showing images of Kai Tak, or Heathrow and JFK in the eighties, nineties and aughts.

We all know that JC owns a wide repertoire of molds, the majority of excellent, or at least better, quality than the Phoenix counterparts (at least the ones that matter, 741/2/3/4, MD-11s), and wherever that isn’t true, NG is usually able to come to the rescue (think TU-154, A330).

We all also know - based on hints that have been popping up (by more than one person) on recent discussions across multiple social outlets - that the reason JC is not joining Phoenix in exploiting the nostalgia gold mine - with their superb molds of contemporary classic airliners - is because they are on a short leash by GJ, who seemingly gets off when they see their older releases (of which they haven’t even produced that many) going for absurd prices on the second-hand market. Bravo GJ for clearing the path for Phoenix to thrive on the nostalgia market, they are not shy, you can keep playing with yourself while watching eBay.

As far as NG does, I personally think that they are showing that they are new in the business after all. They are like a young talented sports player that doesn’t know which team is best for them. NG sees the big names JC/GJ and AC abstaining from releasing the long-sold out classics, for which there is huge (new) demand still, so they emulate. Probably, not completely realizing that they are too just handing out a very lucrative market to Phoenix.

You know what I think about preserving a model’s value: As far as I am concerned, there can be an unlimited supply of rare models out there and I could not care less, the more the merrier. What really makes me happy is looking at my shelves drinking coffee in the mornings (or something else in the evenings) and indulging in a bit of nostalgia. Sometimes I also enjoy impressing myself with the examples produced on the really nice molds, and I also enjoy coming up with the very thoughts that I lay here when I compare the really nice pieces with the less nice ones (they are all nice) and question why that is. That is what I enjoy. I don’t care for eBay bidding wars, and my blood boils a little every time someone posts a glorified toy airplane on Facebook and shamelessly asks $100 for it.

Unfortunately, this wouldn’t be the first time that human egos and greed get in the way of development and offering what is truly beneficial for society in general.
 
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Man, why is this Phoenix June release causing so much discussion?
Just like the other month it happened…a sudden load of classic sought-after ‘grail liveries, on a much sought-after airframe in 1:400 that has had a drought since god-knows when, being produced on a controversial tooling = lots of talk from those that are passionate about the 747 Classic!
 
Just like the other month it happened…a sudden load of classic sought-after ‘grail liveries, on a much sought-after airframe in 1:400 that has had a drought since god-knows when, being produced on a controversial tooling = lots of talk from those that are passionate about the 747 Classic!

Again, I would like to quote this as an excellent example of how we can express our opinion without being indecent, vulgar, and aggressive.
 
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It’s funny as back in the day I’d lurk on DAC and not post in fear of being flamed or getting caught in the melee! Also I was concerned about going down a certain rabbit-hole of arguments, amongst the angles and agendas being cast about. I’ve had a previous career dealing with the public for many years and that helps a lot, you do need a thick skin for sure. Forums are faceless so you can’t read people’s faces, hear the tone of their voice, that makes it that much more difficult as well. I for one would never say anything on here that I couldn’t back up in person, face-to-face. As for moulds being called ‘shit’, you see that doesn’t bother me, but I can see that it upsets others, so it’s all about being diplomatic, which is always my approach.
 
The 1:400 section of DA.C has been pretty much left deserted as a result of a continuous stream of irreconcilable arguments over the years.

The situation over at the 400SH was a bit different in the sense that, as far as I recall, there were not so many arguments per see, but rather a very authoritarian approach in which no one could say anything that could be remotely interpreted as a statement against Aeroclassics or the post (and user potentially) would simply disappear.

Between the two I've always found the 400SH more enjoyable though. The hangar has always had a group of users that always steered away from all that nonsense and kept things entertaining. Even today, the Hangar seems to be having a bit more action than the 1:400 section of DA.C. AK rarely shows up on sections other than the Aeroclassics one, and the small group of old-timers that is still there are a joy to interact with, they are very balanced.
 
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It’s funny as back in the day I’d lurk on DAC and not post in fear of being flamed or getting caught in the melee! Also I was concerned about going down a certain rabbit-hole of arguments, amongst the angles and agendas being cast about. I’ve had a previous career dealing with the public for many years and that helps a lot, you do need a thick skin for sure. Forums are faceless so you can’t read people’s faces, hear the tone of their voice, that makes it that much more difficult as well. I for one would never say anything on here that I couldn’t back up in person, face-to-face. As for moulds being called ‘shit’, you see that doesn’t bother me, but I can see that it upsets others, so it’s all about being diplomatic, which is always my approach.
God if I hade a penny for every time i had a post deleted over there i would have been richer than Elon musk
 
I was going to post this on the respective thread, but since this is an opinion that could also be applied to release sets from other months, I decided to create a dedicated thread to facilitate discussion. Not to mention that Richard has pretty much hijacked the original thread with a bunch of highly opinionated posts.
I didn't hijack that thread you did! You are the one who made it not about the releases and now you're telling people again how they should respond with pats on the head for the responses you like. Basically you're creating your own set of rules for how the forum runs. Do you not realise how you sound? You've made it personal and have been rude and passive aggressive. But hey up to you I'm not telling you how to act.

The issues at DAC are because the forum rules are not applied and certain users mollycoddle those breaking the rules so it is ok when certain people are abusive and not ok when people voice legitimate opinions. It's as simple as that. It's not surprising you like 400SH the most because they just deleted anything they didn't like and anyone with freewill just left!
 
Like most have said already, in terms of liveries, Phoenix is not afraid of anything, and it keeps knocking it out of the park consistently every month. We all know their molds are not the best available. However, they are not the only ugly molds out there, just the ones that for whatever reason get attacked the most. More importantly, seems like by and large the people that like the models still get them regardless the passionate comments that follow every killer release set they announce. So, kudos to the collectors that still buy what makes them happy, I know sometimes it can be difficult to focus on the selection process of what is it that you truly want to add to your collection, with all the noise going on online.

Now, I personally would like to talk about something slightly different, but applicable to this situation.

Clearly, collectors want more classic releases than what it is being offered. We want airframes from the eighties and nineties wearing the iconic liveries from that era. By and large, this hobby is about nostalgia, and models are a way to keep alive cherished memories of the airplanes that you can’t see taxiing around an airport or flying overhead anymore. Sure, there are many young collectors fabricating their own memories right now, so they want die-cast models of current aircraft types and liveries. But watch most of those collectors wanting those same types and liveries of today ten years from now, and most manufacturers not releasing them anymore under the “it’s already been done” argument (history has a way of repeating itself).

Phoenix is the only brand that seems to recognize the importance of exploiting nostalgia, and their release sets seem to come from a JustPlane’s video, or an Airliners.net gallery showing images of Kai Tak, or Heathrow and JFK in the eighties, nineties and aughts.

We all know that JC owns a wide repertoire of molds, the majority of excellent, or at least better, quality than the Phoenix counterparts (at least the ones that matter, 741/2/3/4, MD-11s), and wherever that isn’t true, NG is usually able to come to the rescue (think TU-154, A330).

We all also know - based on hints that have been popping up (by more than one person) on recent discussions across multiple social outlets - that the reason JC is not joining Phoenix in exploiting the nostalgia gold mine - with their superb molds of contemporary classic airliners - is because they are on a short leash by GJ, who seemingly gets off when they see their older releases (of which they haven’t even produced that many) going for absurd prices on the second-hand market. Bravo GJ for clearing the path for Phoenix to thrive on the nostalgia market, they are not shy, you can keep playing with yourself while watching eBay.

As far as NG does, I personally think that they are showing that they are new in the business after all. They are like a young talented sports player that doesn’t know which team is best for them. NG sees the big names JC/GJ and AC abstaining from releasing the long-sold out classics, for which there is huge (new) demand still, so they emulate. Probably, not completely realizing that they are too just handing out a very lucrative market to Phoenix.

You know what I think about preserving a model’s value: As far as I am concerned, there can be an unlimited supply of rare models out there and I could not care less, the more the merrier. What really makes me happy is looking at my shelves drinking coffee in the mornings (or something else in the evenings) and indulging in a bit of nostalgia. Sometimes I also enjoy impressing myself with the examples produced on the really nice molds, and I also enjoy coming up with the very thoughts that I lay here when I compare the really nice pieces with the less nice ones (they are all nice) and question why that is. That is what I enjoy. I don’t care for eBay bidding wars, and my blood boils a little every time someone posts a glorified toy airplane on Facebook and shamelessly asks $100 for it.

Unfortunately, this wouldn’t be the first time that human egos and greed get in the way of development and offering what is truly beneficial for society in general.
Back on topic - this is all basically true although I do think the 747s are quite separate in quality from any other active 400 scale mould. However from what I hear a lot of these recent Phoenix releases are actually suggestions from collectors so they are listening to their core market.

I'd love to know if there is really demand for classics. NG don't seem to think there is, which is sad.
 
Back on topic - this is all basically true although I do think the 747s are quite separate in quality from any other active 400 scale mould. However from what I hear a lot of these recent Phoenix releases are actually suggestions from collectors so they are listening to their core market.

I'd love to know if there is really demand for classics. NG don't seem to think there is, which is sad.
I'm sure there is demand. Maybe not as much as 20 years ago, but nowadays we are limited to AC (and a little GJ/JC), which can be expensive and hard to get in lots of places around the world. AC doesn't seem to collaborate with online-only retailers plus they barely advertise on social media, which make them almost invisible to newer and younger collectors.
 
I think the situation with these Phoenix releases is rather simple, and to be honest, in their position I would be doing the same thing.

The truth is that most collectors can't bear to be patient and wait for decently made/priced sought after models, and it is completely reasonable (on a business standpoint) for Phoenix to take advantage of that as much as they can. However, it is also completely reasonable to criticize Phoenix for doing this, as the tooling is in fact very subpar and if people stopped buying them, it would effectively force Phoenix to step up their game and create a new or improved mould (sadly, that is very wishful thinking).

If it wasn't for this desperation, we would see neither a bunch of Phoenix 747s nor people spending ridiculous amounts of money on old BB400/AC 747s, and I find both situations to be rather unnecessary if only people would be more patient.
 
I think the situation with these Phoenix releases is rather simple, and to be honest, in their position I would be doing the same thing.

The truth is that most collectors can't bear to be patient and wait for decently made/priced sought after models, and it is completely reasonable (on a business standpoint) for Phoenix to take advantage of that as much as they can. However, it is also completely reasonable to criticize Phoenix for doing this, as the tooling is in fact very subpar and if people stopped buying them, it would effectively force Phoenix to step up their game and create a new or improved mould (sadly, that is very wishful thinking).

If it wasn't for this desperation, we would see neither a bunch of Phoenix 747s nor people spending ridiculous amounts of money on old BB400/AC 747s, and I find both situations to be rather unnecessary if only people would be more patient.

I wouldn’t say collectors “can’t bear the patience to wait.” There is a difference between “can” and “want” I bet we can. But there is a cost associated with waiting. If put on a scale some collectors might consider buying what is available today a worthy choice. Also some collectors might not consider the mold “very” subpart, opinions are different.

Now, it is public knowledge that JC is aware of the market that PH is capitalizing on, but GJ not letting them do so in order to protect their (GJ’s) prestige. PH must be thankful of this as GJ is clearing the way for them.

From this point of view GJ is the entity doing us a disservice.
 
AC doesn't seem to collaborate with online-only retailers plus they barely advertise on social media, which make them almost invisible to newer and younger collectors.
Maybe a little of topic, but in general I don't understand why there is so little advertisement from NG, JC etc. I am by no means an expert on marketing but I feel like the potentional market for this hobby, given the amount of aviation enthousiast, could be larger than it currently is.

You at the moment really have to search in order to know that this hobby exists. Why don't they collaborate with aviation channels on YouTube for example.

But regarding the 747's I am pretty sure the demand is there as well.
 
I wouldn’t say collectors “can’t bear the patience to wait.” There is a difference between “can” and “want” I bet we can. But there is a cost associated with waiting. If put on a scale some collectors might consider buying what is available today a worthy choice. Also some collectors might not consider the mold “very” subpart, opinions are different.

Now, it is public knowledge that JC is aware of the market that PH is capitalizing on, but GJ not letting them do so in order to protect their (GJ’s) prestige. PH must be thankful of this as GJ is clearing the way for them.

From this point of view GJ is the entity doing us a disservice.
I'm sure some of us can, but I've met and dealt with many others who are indeed unable to wait. A few years ago, when NG was just starting, I knew a collector who was aware that I had one of the old BlueBox TAP Tristars in my collection, and every month he would offer me ridiculous amounts of money for it.

Well, as soon as NG announced they would be making a Tristar mould, I told him it was just a matter of time before they remade the TAP Tristar, and that if I were him I'd simply wait for that to be released, as it would be far better than the old BlueBox release and also far cheaper than what he was offering me. Guess what? He decided he'd rather pay me over $200 for my Tristar and have it then and there, which I accepted. Later that year the NG release finally showed up and I ended up with a far better model, besides the ridiculous profit from the model I sold him.

The best part? As soon as both NG and AC remade that model, he put the BlueBox one for sale :ROFLMAO:
 
Maybe a little of topic, but in general I don't understand why there is so little advertisement from NG, JC etc. I am by no means an expert on marketing but I feel like the potentional market for this hobby, given the amount of aviation enthousiast, could be larger than it currently is.

You at the moment really have to search in order to know that this hobby exists. Why don't they collaborate with aviation channels on YouTube for example.

But regarding the 747's I am pretty sure the demand is there as well.
Because they don’t want to attract too much licensing issues
 
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