DAC feels like an old guy walking with a cane

[mark4323]

i'd forgotten this site existed and was lamenting the lack of activity on DAC. I stumbled across it again a few days ago!

Ah the nostalgia of the DAC collection manager. Why did that die I can't remember the story? All my models up until then are still there.

Something strange has happened to the DiMA DB. It tells me I need a subscription to see my collection but I can't see anywhere to get the subscription. Not that I'm going to.

What model DBs are you all using? I'm on MADb.

 

[Barison82]

as a now 24yr old, it was SO much fun scouring old Wings900 threads on model airports and the like that were started when I was merely a small child lol. I had days and days of posts to scroll through for a long while. been meaning to go back and look at a few favorites again soon. @LeoMuse747 and @Charter 's airport update threads brought me so much joy and really pulled me into the hobby back then. TCS's (?) highly detailed airports and photos had me so jealous of the skills 12-14yr old me basically still doesn't have yet! His San Antonio T2 still looks gorgeous as ever today.

Wow feeling old now…great that those old threads are still of use to a younger generation of collectors. There is a lot of quality content there, the ones you mention plus much more if you can trawl through it and dig it out. I know that San Antonio T2 diorama - pure class.

 

[mark4323]

as a now 24yr old, it was SO much fun scouring old Wings900 threads on model airports and the like that were started when I was merely a small child lol. I had days and days of posts to scroll through for a long while. been meaning to go back and look at a few favorites again soon. @LeoMuse747 and @Charter 's airport update threads brought me so much joy and really pulled me into the hobby back then. TCS's (?) highly detailed airports and photos had me so jealous of the skills 12-14yr old me basically still doesn't have yet! His San Antonio T2 still looks gorgeous as ever today.

Who was the guy that bought one of every model and would photograph them and put up the pics?

 

[bakejobb_23]

i'd forgotten this site existed and was lamenting the lack of activity on DAC. I stumbled across it again a few days ago!

Ah the nostalgia of the DAC collection manager. Why did that die I can't remember the story? All my models up until then are still there.

Something strange has happened to the DiMA DB. It tells me I need a subscription to see my collection but I can't see anywhere to get the subscription. Not that I'm going to.

What model DBs are you all using? I'm on MADb.

I too am on MADb. Its a great site and so easy to use/customize to however you like to organize your collection. Best database i've use hands down.

 

[Barison82]

i'd forgotten this site existed and was lamenting the lack of activity on DAC. I stumbled across it again a few days ago!

Ah the nostalgia of the DAC collection manager. Why did that die I can't remember the story? All my models up until then are still there.

Something strange has happened to the DiMA DB. It tells me I need a subscription to see my collection but I can't see anywhere to get the subscription. Not that I'm going to.

What model DBs are you all using? I'm on MADb.

That’s ironic!

When Mike Waffle took over DAC in 2004 I think he started working on developing the Wings900 DB into what became DiMA. Back then he had a store called Air Paradigm I think.

DiMA got locked last year following some behind-the-scenes skullduggery following the startup of MADb, where allegedly a script was run on DiMA and it’s DB content lifted. Not getting into that one but that’s why a paid subscription has subsequently started up following the fallout from that.

I used to rely on DiMA myself for my collection DB and liked the layout, but have since migrated my collection over to my own Excel, doing my own pics and even put all the correct airline logos and manufacturer logos in as well. I’d rather have my own full personal control over it. I keep a running tally of the cost.

 

[Barison82]

Who was the guy that bought one of every model and would photograph them and put up the pics?

Brinkley Chan!

 

[Barison82]

I too am on MADb. Its a great site and so easy to use/customize to however you like to organize your collection. Best database i've use hands down.

Again it’s set up as a mobile friendly, ease of use format with modern functionality which DiMA could have benefitted from originally if it had been updated before. Can’t justify $10 a month either. Personally, I’m much happier having private control over my own DB since that went down.

 

[bakejobb_23]

Brinkley Chan!

woah... thats a name that brings back D E E P memories lol

 

[mark4323]

Again it’s set up as a mobile friendly, ease of use format with modern functionality which DiMA could have benefitted from originally if it had been updated before. Can’t justify $10 a month either. Personally, I’m much happier having private control over my own DB since that went down.

Hmm yes. after migrating twice now and losing data both times. DAC to DiMA lost the acquire date and from. At least I can select AUD in MADb instead of being forced into USD.

 

[Barison82]

I remember being a regular on Wings900 about a decade ago now, used to be a thriving place in general. What was the timeline of popularity on all forums surrounding the hobby? I only really know of the big three being talked about now (Wings900, DAC, MAF) but I assume there were a few more floating around? any niche forums that used to be incredibly popular years back or still are today? why doesn't someone consolidate and bring everyone to one place? Were a "small" hobby as it is, would be great to have everyone under one roof yk?

Just to answer your last bit there - a commendable idea of a hobby ‘utopia’ but that would never happen, all the respective forums are privately owned and are established in their own right, with each still having their own base of which some will not participate in others.

There are also cultural differences within them which would never gel in that hypothetical, unified environment. The way in which each are run and moderated is so different.

You’ve also got the various FB groups co-existing. A few (myself included) are flexible and are involved with all of them in varying degrees.

I suspect the main 2 forums now are MAF and DAC really.

400SH runs a very tight ship with its closeness to Andrew and AC - really that’s the AC forum. You’d never get that merging with MAF

 

[Barison82]

Hmm yes. after migrating twice now and losing data both times. DAC to DiMA lost the acquire date and from. At least I can select AUD in MADb instead of being forced into USD.

What a pain! It took me months to collate my collection into Excel and that’s at a modest 500-odd.

I added all the date fields in with full detail, lucky I kept a .pdf of my DiMA collection as otherwise it would’ve been trawling through years of receipts.

The extra functionality MADb offers with currency options is handy then. I go through my CC bill to get my overseas purchases recorded accurately, definitely more work the way I’m doing it now but I don’t mind it.

 

[Barison82]

Just one more thing (to quote a phrase from Columbo, some of you may have to Google that one), despite all the negative aspects I mentioned, I’m glad I posted here today. Great topic started by the OP

 

[bakejobb_23]

Just to answer your last bit there - a commendable idea of a hobby ‘utopia’ but that would never happen, all the respective forums are privately owned and are established in their own right, with each still having their own base of which some will not participate in others.

There are also cultural differences within them which would never gel in that hypothetical, unified environment. The way in which each are run and moderated is so different.

You’ve also got the various FB groups co-existing. A few (myself included) are flexible and are involved with all of them in varying degrees.

I suspect the main 2 forums now are MAF and DAC really.

400SH runs a very tight ship with its closeness to Andrew and AC - really that’s the AC forum. You’d never get that merging with MAF

A shame IMO, I feel that there could be one big site where everyone posts and lurks. Would certainly strengthen the community as long as most of us here can still realize differing opinions are okay! We collect little tiny airplanes, lets at least have a bit of fun with it all said and done you know? lol

I mostly just wish the Airport section was a bit more used across all sites. I miss the days of 2-3 posts/day in those sections of new updates and stories. Its something I'm hoping to bring back (at least personally) as I make and finish more dioramas (terminals are my kryptonite right now lol). I understand keeping planes in boxes or tucked back in shelves but whats the use if you aren't bringing them out to display and maybe even take some nice photos every now and then My brain loves the creativity surrounding the hobby in that way, even more than just collecting to collect, which is still fun don't get me wrong.

 

[YesterAirlines]

I didn't realise DIMA had started some subscription thing, but the fact he's done that just illustrates that everything he was saying about why he shut it down and hid it was BS and it was just about the money and him not getting the acclaim he felt he deserved. Just like he claimed when he told me he was going to shut it down because the collectors can go and do one.

Regardless DIMA only ever had what Waffle sells (unless I added it myself) which isn't everything anyway.

In relation to one db or site the reality is that there are bad actors in the scale that will always undermine the option of having a central place to talk and discuss and store model info. AK and the Gemini guys are just not the sort to play nicely or be decent and have an unhealthy control of DAC and 400SH. The former applies moderation rules when it suits them and the latter is a hotbed of lies and defamatory comments. Neither are particularly well frequented and both use ancient tech.

@bakejobb_23 for airport groups there are several good ones on FB - such as 'As Real As It Gets'.

 

[swagninja84]

400SH runs a very tight ship with its closeness to Andrew and AC - really that’s the AC forum. You’d never get that merging with MAF

400SH is a AC/AK echo chamber. Bashing the brands he deems "unworthy" i.e. brands that produce better products than AC and you cannot say negative things about AC and must kiss AK's backside.

 

[quanng]

Also just to answer the OP’s question, DAC was founded in 1999.

The story starts with Wings500, the first forum to exist for the die-cast hobby. This was founded by Andy Andresen (of Tucano fame) in November 1997.

Dan Asher of GJ asked Andy for a ‘Wings400’ to also be started, following the start of that brand/scale in 1998. He ended up forming DAC with Gordon Werner (of SMAC fame) in 1999.

In 2000 the forums were upgraded to vBulletin.

Meanwhile in 2001, Wings500 became Wings900 as it took on 1:400 scale discussion as well (400 + 500).

In 2002 Wings900 took over DAC and still powers it today I believe. In fact I forgot about Wings900 until posting this, it still exists as a separate forum and I’m registered on that one too, but never use it. Not much goes on there at all but it also has a thread archive.

The thread archives on DAC don’t go beyond August 2001 as I believe a mod to the site at some point caused the older stuff to be lost, but bits survive on Internet Archive/Wayback Machine.

Another forum was started up around 2002 when a lot of early core members left DAC, (the “SNL” circuit I mentioned), that was called Airline Buzz, long gone now.

Gordon Werner exited DAC in early 2004 following the demise of SMAC. Around this time, 400ScaleHangar was started up, that’s another one still going but again, not much goes on there either.

Thank you for your thorough look into the history of both forums. I didn't know before why it was called W900 and not other numbers. I also started my "serious" collecting process approx 12 yrs ago by joining a Vietnamese hobby forum which has a small section dedicated to aircraft model and for the Western front - W900. I was really inspired by Leo - eagerly for the photos of his diorama (the thread was really popular) and Charter for the glance of new releases. I have an account at DA.C and other forums but rarely post there. I also joined a host of FB groups but posting on forum just feels different. To me, MAF makes posting very convenient as I don't need to upload my photos into other cloud servers with a more modern UI. As of late I post mainly on MAF but not on FB anymore (I wanted to become a bit anonymous there too).

 

[Jazajia]

What a delightful thread to read through you guys. I was already planning to thank you all for it, and turns out Quanng bit me to it. But seriously, it had been a good while since any forum had such a productive, engaging and pleasurable conversation.

Even Brinkley, TCS and Air Paradigm were mentioned, I talk about 400 scale diecast nostalgia.

@Barison82 You seem extremely familiar with the history of the forums, and I would love to have a chance and pick your brain on that topic a bit more. One thing that stood out is the fact that Waffle controlled DA.C at one point... Crazy, he has been banned form the site since before I started collecting in 2009. However, I do remember Air Paradigm, I bught my first few 1:400 models from there before the link started redirecting me to a then new store called Waffle Collectibles.

Recently, as a result of the MADb squable, Waffle wrote some passionate post on DiMA about his involment in the hobby and mentioned that he bought Air Paradigm from someone else. He had bought a few other stores since, but Air Paradigm seems to be the one that brought him to "fame." I have seen some old cources reffer to Collection Sales as Paradigm Sales, I would love to dig more on that.

Recenlty, I had the fortune to stumble across a news letter that ran between 2007 and 2009 called TOTS (The One True Scale), it is about 1:200 scale and a lot of the early volumes go over the history of 1:200 scale in England before 1:400 scale, and before mass-production in China, became a thing. The epoch this thread touches on is a nice continuation of that story. It is amazing to read and discover how nothing has changed really; the obsession with perfection, egos clasing, collection sales, etc.

Among the many pans that I have on the fire right now is the idea of creating some sort of newsletter or periodical. I normally wouldn't bring up some random idea like this, but I found the situation appropriate (I have had a draft in the works for a few weeks, but then again, I also have about 6 other drafts in the works since about. 3 months ago). While a collective forum is an utopia, as some have mentioned here, I believe a periodical could serve as some sort of string phone for the collecting community. There have been many short-lived and failed such initiatives I know, but why not add another one to the list?

 

[Jazajia]

I didn't realise DIMA had started some subscription thing, but the fact he's done that just illustrates that everything he was saying about why he shut it down and hid it was BS and it was just about the money and him not getting the acclaim he felt he deserved. Just like he claimed when he told me he was going to shut it down because the collectors can go and do one. All the talk of data stealing was nonsense.

Regardless DIMA only ever had what Waffle sells (unless I added it myself) which isn't everything anyway.

In relation to one db or site the reality is that there are bad actors in the scale that will always undermine the option of having a central place to talk and discuss and store model info. AK and the Gemini guys are just not the sort to play nicely or be decent and have an unhealthy control of DAC and 400SH. The former applies moderation rules when it suits them and the latter is a hotbed of lies and defamatory comments. Neither are particularly well frequented and both use ancient tech.

@bakejobb_23 for airport groups there are several good ones on FB - such as 'As Real As It Gets'.

I think someone mentioned that each forum had a clique agenda or something. It seems like here we bash on Waffle and promote Raimond's diorama group .

I have to give it to you that Waffle was butthurt for being displaced as "The" airplane model database guy, and he also probably "stole" some data to start DiMA as I really doubt he typed each entry individually. In spite of that, he did grow the database on his own for many years, and made it the reference database for the hobby almost on his own (I know in later years you did put some input). The MADb guy did what he had to do, but Waffle had every right to get as pissed off as he did.

Go on gents. Why did you have to bring that up anyway?

 

[swagninja84]

Go on gents. Why did you have to bring that up anyway?

Because someone else did, about needing a subscription on DiMA.
The DiMA database was built on the back of the DAC database.

i'd forgotten this site existed and was lamenting the lack of activity on DAC. I stumbled across it again a few days ago!

Ah the nostalgia of the DAC collection manager. Why did that die I can't remember the story? All my models up until then are still there.

Something strange has happened to the DiMA DB. It tells me I need a subscription to see my collection but I can't see anywhere to get the subscription. Not that I'm going to.

What model DBs are you all using? I'm on MADb.

 

[YesterAirlines]

I think someone mentioned that each forum had a clique agenda or something. It seems like here we bash on Waffle and promote Raimond's diorama group .

I know you're joking but I don't think that's true. Waffle gets as much praise as he deserves, but has made a lot of enemies with his actions over the years. Raimond's group is a fine one and easy to remember because he gave it a good name! There are several other model airport groups on FB, but all with generic names.

I have to give it to you that Waffle was butthurt for being displaced as "The" airplane model database guy, and he also probably "stole" some data to start DiMA as I really doubt he typed each entry individually. In spite of that, he did grow the database on his own for many years, and made it the reference database for the hobby almost on his own (I know in later years you did put some input). The MADb guy did what he had to do, but Waffle had every right to get as pissed off as he did.

I don't want to relitigate the whole thing to be honest, but I don't really agree and I'll point you back to the post I created when he started making accusations about me: https://www.yesterdaysairlines.com/model-airport-blog/dima-and-madb-the-truth

I can't remember when I started helping with DIMA, but it must have been around 2020 when he upset AK so much that he was cut off and AC Direct started - so a good chunk of its life, since DAC has db entries until 2017. The reality remains that there was never anything altruistic about DIMA - it exists to power his store and originally as an attempt to takeover from a failing DAC.

Regardless, returning to the what the thread was about. The thing with DAC and Wings900 is that the owners simply have no interest in doing anything other than collecting ad revenue. I believe they own a lot of these kind of sites and just leave them to rot while collecting the money. Arguably, the shall we say, 'moderation style', at DAC is offputting for a modern audience too, but probably the biggest issue is simply that forums are no longer the preferred way for younger collectors to engage with the hobby.