MADb Model Database Updates

[Jazajia]

Well, now I'm wondering when/if all of our collections will be deleted too...mine's still there...so far.

There is no indication that Waffle is going to delete anyone's collection. As explained before, he just "hid" the entries of the two more popular scales: 1:400 and 1:200 so that the creators of MADb cannot gather data from it.

I kinda think we all should launch a boycott on principle

On what principle exactly? Much of the data that comprises MADb came straight from DiMA. That is why Waffle is angry. The model info is public, and anyone is free to organize the data, but by taking bulk data from DiMA Waffle's work (the work that it takes to organize a huge amount of data) was effectively stolen.

There is a catch, however. As Richard pointed out, he also contributed to some of the data that comprises DiMA, so not all of the work was stolen from Waffle, Richard also took some of his own work. Also, I believe the DiMA database itself took a lot of the data from the old DAC database, which, as Richard pointed out, also included a lot of data inputted by him.

I think it is a bit of a shitty move by the MADb folks because Waffle was clearly not okay with them taking the data. Richard just rationalized his move because some of the data was part of his own work anyway, and because Waffle was not giving him anything in exchange, etc. Keep in mind that Waffle was footing the bill for the DiMA platform that Richard was using to input the data, and I believe it was Richard who offered his help in the first place (correct me if I'm wrong).

Anyway @IndyJets, I just wanted to point out that by boycotting Waffle "out of principle" for hiding some of the DiMA data, you are automatically supporting other practices that can also be classified as "unethical." If MADb wants to create a database the proper way to do it is to go ahead and compile and input all the bloody data manually, keystroke by keystroke. But hey "work smarter and not harder" is a popular saying after all

The best thing we can do is stay out of it and enjoy whatever benefits MADb can bring to us. But if we are going to bring "principles" to the table, then it is important to shed light on what happens behind the scenes.

For the record, as problematic as it can be, DiMA is by far the best database I have seen in terms of data. Both DAC and the 400 Scale Hangar had databases at one point, but they no longer exist. The relevant brands keep their own release data anyways, and it is a pain to keep track of the more obscure releases (this is where Richard truly shines).

MADb absolutely has a place to fill in the hobby, and for that I applaud the effort. But I know that it is not built exactly on top of an Eden of roses. But then again, hardly anything is in this world.

Cheers,

 

[YesterAirlines]

On what principle exactly? Much of the data that comprises MADb came straight from DiMA. That is why Waffle is angry. The model info is public, and anyone is free to organize the data, but by taking bulk data from DiMA Waffle's work (the work that it takes to organize a huge amount of data) was effectively stolen.

There is a catch, however. As Richard pointed out, he also contributed to some of the data that comprises DiMA, so not all of the work was stolen from Waffle, Richard also took some of his own work. Also, I believe the DiMA database itself took a lot of the data from the old DAC database, which, as Richard pointed out, also included a lot of data inputted by him.

I think it is a bit of a shitty move by the MADb folks because Waffle was clearly not okay with them taking the data. Richard just rationalized his move because some of the data was part of his own work anyway, and because Waffle was not giving him anything in exchange, etc. Keep in mind that Waffle was footing the bill for the DiMA platform that Richard was using to input the data, and I believe it was Richard who offered his help in the first place (correct me if I'm wrong).

I want to reiterate that I do not own MADb or have any ownership stake in it. I haven't been engaged in any data scraping to MADb. Way beyond my technical ability.

Waffle needs the database to run his store. DIMA existed only because of DAC's seeming demise a few years back. It isn't some altruistic platform. It exists to make Waffle money. That's fine, but let's not pretend he was doing anything more than any other store does - entering data to sell models at his shop. Data that was provided to him by manufacturers and is all publically available information.

I might add there's no money in MADb for me, but I do want a database that everyone can use. All I'm putting in is hours and hours of my time - for free!

Anyway @IndyJets, I just wanted to point out that by boycotting Waffle "out of principle" for hiding some of the DiMA data, you are automatically supporting other practices that can also be classified as "unethical."

Yeah it's up to you who you buy from and it's Waffle's db to do with what he likes. A boycott makes no sense to me.

If MADb wants to create a database the proper way to do it is to go ahead and compile and input all the bloody data manually, keystroke by keystroke. But hey "work smarter and not harder" is a popular saying after all

I am literally going through all the MADb records manually and you can see the data doesn't look like and isn't the same as in DIMA. If it were the job would be much quicker and I wouldn't be deleting and creating so many records. Also it is properly organised as a relational database ought to be. Brands, aircraft types, livery information, airlines and other information is NOT the same. I wouldn't want it to be.

 

[Jazajia]

I might add there's no money in MADb for me, but I do want a database that everyone can use. All I'm putting in is hours and hours of my time - for free!

I figured. For that, I will thank you Richard, as I know how much work these things take, and I also know that if all works out well I will benefit from MADb greatly.

You are not getting money, but you are getting some recognition, and that has some value. I can see your site gets sponsorship at MADb. You know I have a site too, but no time to become some sort of "voice of the hobby." Part of me wishes I could be in your position.

I'm sorry some of the behind-the-scenes drama leaked out though.

 

[IndyJets]

There is no indication that Waffle is going to delete anyone's collection. As explained before, he just "hid" the entries of the two more popular scales: 1:400 and 1:200 so that the creators of MADb cannot gather data from it.



On what principle exactly? Much of the data that comprises MADb came straight from DiMA. That is why Waffle is angry. The model info is public, and anyone is free to organize the data, but by taking bulk data from DiMA Waffle's work (the work that it takes to organize a huge amount of data) was effectively stolen.

There is a catch, however. As Richard pointed out, he also contributed to some of the data that comprises DiMA, so not all of the work was stolen from Waffle, Richard also took some of his own work. Also, I believe the DiMA database itself took a lot of the data from the old DAC database, which, as Richard pointed out, also included a lot of data inputted by him.

I think it is a bit of a shitty move by the MADb folks because Waffle was clearly not okay with them taking the data. Richard just rationalized his move because some of the data was part of his own work anyway, and because Waffle was not giving him anything in exchange, etc. Keep in mind that Waffle was footing the bill for the DiMA platform that Richard was using to input the data, and I believe it was Richard who offered his help in the first place (correct me if I'm wrong).

Anyway @IndyJets, I just wanted to point out that by boycotting Waffle "out of principle" for hiding some of the DiMA data, you are automatically supporting other practices that can also be classified as "unethical." If MADb wants to create a database the proper way to do it is to go ahead and compile and input all the bloody data manually, keystroke by keystroke. But hey "work smarter and not harder" is a popular saying after all

The best thing we can do is stay out of it and enjoy whatever benefits MADb can bring to us. But if we are going to bring "principles" to the table, then it is important to shed light on what happens behind the scenes.

For the record, as problematic as it can be, DiMA is by far the best database I have seen in terms of data. Both DAC and the 400 Scale Hangar had databases at one point, but they no longer exist. The relevant brands keep their own release data anyways, and it is a pain to keep track of the more obscure releases (this is where Richard truly shines).

MADb absolutely has a place to fill in the hobby, and for that I applaud the effort. But I know that it is not built exactly on top of an Eden of roses. But then again, hardly anything is in this world.

Cheers,

Wow. I thought the MADB data was all new and independent, crowdsourced straight from the collectors themselves. We ought to be able to submit data on models that we own without having to rely on DIMA for it, right? If enough collectors submit their info, the full picture of what has been produced will eventually come together.

 

[YesterAirlines]

Wow. I thought the MADB data was all new and independent, crowdsourced straight from the collectors themselves. We ought to be able to submit data on models that we own without having to rely on DIMA for it, right? If enough collectors submit their info, the full picture of what has been produced will eventually come together.

It is my understanding that the data has come from a variety of sources including manufacturers themselves like Gemini and NG (who have both supported the new db). I alone have kept detailed records for brands like Aeroclassics, AV400, NG, Panda, HYJL, Yu and a host of other smaller manufacturers for years now, which I've been using to markup the db data. JC Wings has provided a load of data too including quite a few releases I'd not seen before from their legacy brands.

All the db data I've been working on has also been transformed to normalise it as well. All the photos have been provided independently.

 

[Ciderman]

Will there be any way to import one's collection from DiMA as it used to be when DiMA was new? I doubt I have the time to enter hundreds of model records (purchase date, cost, etc.) manually

 

[YesterAirlines]

Will there be any way to import one's collection from DiMA as it used to be when DiMA was new? I doubt I have the time to enter hundreds of model records (purchase date, cost, etc.) manually

There is an import function I believe already but I haven't used it so don't know how it works. If I've got the time to manually process over 18,000 records then I'm sure you can find the time to add some models

On the subject of data a nice quick one to complete is:



There are 1,256 records in the database and you'll note that almost all of them have a month associated with the release date illustrating quite clearly the sort of quality data the db has and that it didn't come from DIMA, where that data was never present.

So that's 2 of the big 5 knocked off. I'm still waiting for the NG photos (although most entries have at least an artwork shot) but the data is good I think.

 

[Ciderman]

If I've got the time to manually process over 18,000 records then I'm sure you can find the time to add some models

Not really. My hobby is collecting airplane models, not data management. But each to their own.

 

[Ciderman]

I tried to import my collection but only my trades are found (although I have now marked my whole 1/400 collection as public). I'm also wondering if the purchase dates, sources and comments are imported (which are of great importance to me). If that works I'll be on board. BTW, is this database planned to remain free or is this the beginning of a subscription service?

 

[YesterAirlines]

I tried to import my collection but only my trades are found (although I have now marked my whole 1/400 collection as public). I'm also wondering if the purchase dates, sources and comments are imported (which are of great importance to me). If that works I'll be on board. BTW, is this database planned to remain free or is this the beginning of a subscription service?

It's not my db, but I expect it to remain free

 

[Thingswithwings]

Been playing around with MADb, so far really enjoying it and looking forward to it populating with more pictures!

Two questions:
Is there a way to undo one of your own suggested edits? I’m realizing one suggestion I made is wrong/obsolete.
Will the models be searchable by livery (e.g. the Asiana 1988 Landor livery)?

 

[JuanReyes]

Uploaded some JC Wings and Gemini pics for review. Have Phoenix models been updated with pictures yet? Else, I can upload some of those as well.

 

[jaymaddog]

I tried to import my collection but only my trades are found (although I have now marked my whole 1/400 collection as public). I'm also wondering if the purchase dates, sources and comments are imported (which are of great importance to me). If that works I'll be on board.

At this time, it does not import that data.

is this database planned to remain free or is this the beginning of a subscription service?

The intention is to keep it free. The costs are minimal for now. If any sort of subscription were to appear in the future, it would be in the form of premium features, something beyond what is already offered now for free.

Is there a way to undo one of your own suggested edits? I’m realizing one suggestion I made is wrong/obsolete.

Not at this time. I will add it to the list of features to add. What's the model ID#?

Will the models be searchable by livery (e.g. the Asiana 1988 Landor livery)?

Yes, that feature will be added soon. However, at the moment, only about 25% of the models have liveries assigned, so it wouldn't really produce the results expected anyway. Many people have been helping to assign them, and photos help even more, so thank you!

Have Phoenix models been updated with pictures yet?

Doesn't look like those have been reviewed yet. I would just hold off a few days.

 

[jaymaddog]

I completely forgot to mention that custom models are now possible! Feature was just added today, so there might be a few bugs. Please let me know if you have any issues.

To add a custom model, go to your collection page, then click ADD CUSTOM near the top of the list. After inputting the details, it will create the record and take you to a page dedicated to that custom, which is linked just to you. From there, you can edit the model details, and also edit the entry details (source, cost, etc). It will appear back on your collection page as well.

 

[OscarBravo992]

I completely forgot to mention that custom models are now possible! Feature was just added today, so there might be a few bugs. Please let me know if you have any issues.

To add a custom model, go to your collection page, then click ADD CUSTOM near the top of the list. After inputting the details, it will create the record and take you to a page dedicated to that custom, which is linked just to you. From there, you can edit the model details, and also edit the entry details (source, cost, etc). It will appear back on your collection page as well.

Just tried it out! Very handy, and equally intuitive as the rest of MADb. Thanks!

 

[josecolme]

I completely forgot to mention that custom models are now possible! Feature was just added today, so there might be a few bugs. Please let me know if you have any issues.

To add a custom model, go to your collection page, then click ADD CUSTOM near the top of the list. After inputting the details, it will create the record and take you to a page dedicated to that custom, which is linked just to you. From there, you can edit the model details, and also edit the entry details (source, cost, etc). It will appear back on your collection page as well.

Might I suggest another field for the customs. The artist or brand who made the custom plus the mould/donor used.

For example I just added my first 1:400 custom. It was a Martinair 737-800 using a GeminiJets mould. So I placed GJ in the brand field, but it might imply as if it were made by GJ as opposed to it being a GJ mould being painted by somebody else.

Other than that, really loving it

 

[Ciderman]

At this time, it does not import that data.

Is this feature in the pipeline? Because the purchase dates, prices, sources and comments are vital IMHO.

 

[YesterAirlines]

Update on the db cleansing.

Late yesterday I finished cleaning the Gemini Jets data - another 2,573 models. This was made easier by Gemini providing access to their photo library. Most of the records once again have a month and year. Most have the official Gemini photos, which have their limitations but are a great start point.

So, as of yesterday that was around 8,705 records cleaned - so nearly at the halfway mark.

NG Models have also provided access to their photo database and I am gradually applying their excellent images (usually 4 or 5 per record) to the records. You can see in the db that Dec 2020 - Jan 2023 are largely done so far. Although the UI is great it is still a long exercise to add the images manually.

 

[jaymaddog]

Is this feature in the pipeline? Because the purchase dates, prices, sources and comments are vital IMHO.

It will be reviewed.

 

[jaymaddog]

Is there a way to undo one of your own suggested edits? I’m realizing one suggestion I made is wrong/obsolete.

This feature is now available. On the model page, click VIEW HISTORY. From there, find the correction and you can either add more comments, if needed, or delete (only if no other comments have been made already).

Also, you can view all of your corrections (pending, approved, rejected) from your Account page (click on your username in top right, then ACCOUNT). It will show how many corrections of each status and then you can click the number to see a list of those.

As mentioned before - new features like this may contain bugs. Please report any issues and they will be addressed.