Completely agree. I really like the wording "willing to pay for it". Every situation is different, thus meaning the model is worth what it is worth in that situation.
Out of Control Pricing of Second Hand Models
- Thread starter YesterAirlines
- Start date
JJ Skippy
Well-known member
I like how @redriveraviation put it, what it’s worth in that situation. I would like to not pay so much for a lot of models that I need for my retro project, but sometimes I have to do it in order to get that model. It really depends on how much I need it, thus influencing my budget for the model.
Purpleplane
Well-known member
Yes, I know what you mean. I personally haven't gotten to that point yet...so far.
Barison82
Well-known member
…I won’t get to that point! I have an absolute limit now, and will not indulge these crazy sky-high auction prices! Keeping both feet firmly on the ground here
There’s got to be a sensible balance and common sense. The rest is just madness
Barison82
Well-known member
Auctions are auctions and can have unpredictable results. If genuine and legit, then that’s what it is, and yes the model is worth what it is in that situation, and you can’t argue with that.
But where do you draw the line. You have the more extreme situations - a bidding war gets to that point and all common sense is lost, now it’s all about ego and ‘I must have it at all costs’, almost like uncontrollable gambling!
In with all this, there are a lot of shenanigans going on too and the more extreme, sky-high auction amounts are informing what some are perceiving to be ‘true market value’ of certain models, and are expecting this amount for them when sold at fairs etc. Not a very positive outcome for an ordinary collector just trying to build up their collection or fill in much-needed gaps.
I’m not saying our collections should be worthless, and in any collectible hobby there will be a natural appreciation in value for some of the harder to find or desirable items, that’s to be expected with limited edition collectibles.
However I feel that this is being artificially and deliberately inflated of late, in a rather unnatural way, and it’s all happening in the ebay world, where you can easily see the forced attempts to purposefully jack up the value and create hype. I’m not buying into this.
But where do you draw the line. You have the more extreme situations - a bidding war gets to that point and all common sense is lost, now it’s all about ego and ‘I must have it at all costs’, almost like uncontrollable gambling!
In with all this, there are a lot of shenanigans going on too and the more extreme, sky-high auction amounts are informing what some are perceiving to be ‘true market value’ of certain models, and are expecting this amount for them when sold at fairs etc. Not a very positive outcome for an ordinary collector just trying to build up their collection or fill in much-needed gaps.
I’m not saying our collections should be worthless, and in any collectible hobby there will be a natural appreciation in value for some of the harder to find or desirable items, that’s to be expected with limited edition collectibles.
However I feel that this is being artificially and deliberately inflated of late, in a rather unnatural way, and it’s all happening in the ebay world, where you can easily see the forced attempts to purposefully jack up the value and create hype. I’m not buying into this.
Purpleplane
Well-known member
True. I really don't think I'll ever get to that point myself. There just isn't anything out there there that I want that bad.…I won’t get to that point! I have an absolute limit now, and will not indulge these crazy sky-high auction prices! Keeping both feet firmly on the ground here
Jazajia
Well-known member
I think paying excessively for a model you really want is a good way to screw up the model. I would shudder every time I took a look at a model that was clearly and excessively overpriced.…I won’t get to that point! I have an absolute limit now, and will not indulge these crazy sky-high auction prices! Keeping both feet firmly on the ground here
Excellent analysis of the eBay auction world and how is affecting the price of models.
I think what collectors and retailers need to understand is that even with legit and healthy eBay auctions, in which the model starting price is close to the original MSRP and the bidders are being honest and deliberate, the elevated price that some of these models end up going for doesn't mean that everyone is willing to pay that much for every model that is sold out.
There are usually a small number of people engaged in these auctions, and only one is willing to pay the final price, and that one person that was willing to drop some serious cash for that model is likely out of the market after that auction is over. But collectors see this and now they think their collection is a small fortune. Other sellers also see this and may start asking themselves why would they sell the same model for less. And again, the answer would be, because only one person was willing to pay that much for it, and that person already bought it
. I have come across a few auctions that display signs of shill bidding, and have seen auctions getting canceled because the model seemingly didn't reach the price the seller was expecting. These overinflated prices seemed to be exclusive to the eBay world but recently have spilled to the regular retailer world, primarily seen at new stores, but also at some of the traditional ones (
, among others). Another problem I see is people coming across a "rare" model for a fair price, and buying it in hopes of flipping it for a profit. I will admit to having felt the temptation so I understand. But in the end, this also raises the offering prices, because the model will have to be sold at a price higher than fair to turn a profit. I think it is fair to mention that there are several regular eBay sellers that list models at fair prices and will give you excellent service regardless of what price the model goes for. Additionally, there are some traditional retailers that on occasion list rare models for regular prices (JetCollector, Threshold).
Finally, I think supply and demand tend to work. An example of this would be Waffle recently deciding to dump a large part of his collection sale for prices that I had not seen in years. But I mean, after a while most old models, well, get too old to begging with, and most of them find their way to their final owners, new collectors with different interests arrive, etc... and of course, with current manufacturers pumping out new models at the rate they are, it is just a matter of time.
Barison82
Well-known member
Thank you for this really considered reply - you nailed a lot of other things here as well, all very accurately reflecting the situation. The shill bidding and flipping behaviours are the two things which are really aggravating this hobby. Thank goodness we have fair sellers still out there, and I can vouch for all the retailers you mention above as I have found 'difficult' models from them a few times, all being offered at regular and fair prices. You just need to be quick!I think paying excessively for a model you really want is a good way to screw up the model. I would shudder every time I took a look at a model that was clearly and excessively overpriced.
Excellent analysis of the eBay auction world and how is affecting the price of models.
I think what collectors and retailers need to understand is that even with legit and healthy eBay auctions, in which the model starting price is close to the original MSRP and the bidders are being honest and deliberate, the elevated price that some of these models end up going for doesn't mean that everyone is willing to pay that much for every model that is sold out.
There are usually a small number of people engaged in these auctions, and only one is willing to pay the final price, and that one person that was willing to drop some serious cash for that model is likely out of the market after that auction is over. But collectors see this and now they think their collection is a small fortune. Other sellers also see this and may start asking themselves why would they sell the same model for less. And again, the answer would be, because only one person was willing to pay that much for it, and that person already bought it
I have come across a few auctions that display signs of shill bidding, and have seen auctions getting canceled because the model seemingly didn't reach the price the seller was expecting. These overinflated prices seemed to be exclusive to the eBay world but recently have spilled to the regular retailer world, primarily seen at new stores, but also at some of the traditional ones (
I think it is fair to mention that there are several regular eBay sellers that list models at fair prices and will give you excellent service regardless of what price the model goes for. Additionally, there are some traditional retailers that on occasion list rare models for regular prices (JetCollector, Threshold).
Finally, I think supply and demand tend to work. An example of this would be Waffle recently deciding to dump a large part of his collection sale for prices that I had not seen in years. But I mean, after a while most old models, well, get too old to begging with, and most of them find their way to their final owners, new collectors with different interests arrive, etc... and of course, with current manufacturers pumping out new models at the rate they are, it is just a matter of time.
OscarBravo992
Well-known member
…I won’t get to that point! I have an absolute limit now, and will not indulge these crazy sky-high auction prices! Keeping both feet firmly on the ground here
You put this in a very clear and accurate way. I couldn't agree more with what you have said. Thank you.
"I'm not into vendettas", says the guy who blocked me from every Facebook page he was associated with. Such a narcissistic hypocrite I've never encountered before!!
His so called reviews are a sick joke, because he's actually paid by NG/Panda to promote their products, so errors are always overlooked, those who mention them scorned, and the competing brands always shown to be inferior, even when they are clearly not! Bringing these facts up is called bullying apparently too!!
Seems the person in question had his own problems on this website long before I even joined, so let the facts prevail!!
I hope you're all enjoying your weekend and looking for some great models online. Even Ebay has good offerings; depends where you look!
Very good point, and if these prolific scalpers can be listed, I will definitely do my part to making sure that they're not buying multiples of our new releases!! Seriously!!
During our recent Black Friday sale, I cancelled 2 orders, both for multiples of the same hot items, namely Ozark DC-9s and TWA L-1011s, as I refuse to allow my generosity of a sale to collectors to be abused by some greedy AH who will flip it on Ebay for a healthy profit. In spite of those two, our sale was a huge success with many cashing in on great prices, most in the low to mid $20s, and I'm happy for those who were able to get what they wanted for a great deal!!
Jazajia
Well-known member
Hey Andrew I hope you are also enjoying your weekend. I think you went a bit too far on a few points there:
Richard doesn't always overlook errors, I was reading one of his recent reviews of an NG Fly Globespan 736 and he clearly mentioned how they made a mistake on the tail logo.
Then he also very recently gave a very favorable review to a China Eastern 773 by made by Phoenix. Up to not that long ago he continued to say that the Aeroclassics Douglas family and A300 are among the best in the industry. He was still making those comments after you guys had that big fallout.
He has said multiple times that he does not get compensated by any model brand other than being allowed to keep the samples they send him. If anything else goes on behind the scenes, I don't know. However, I think Richard's unconditional love for NG (which he does show...) is likely not because they pay him, but rather because he has a vested interest in making NG look good in pro of maintaining the good relationship they have, being able to continue to review their new samples, and ultimately increase the traffic and audience of Yesterday's Airlines. It is only logical, and I don't see anything wrong with it, especially after all the time and effort he puts into his excellent site.
Richard's reviews are not perfect, after all, they are his personal opinions (and he has acknowledged that), but they still provide a wealth of information on specific models, even if one has to filter through some of the material (To give one example of the stuff I filter: all of the "don't buy Phoenix 747s..." stuff...)
To be fair Andrew, and I'm saying this fully aware of the fact that you could go ballistic on me, It is easy to say good things about NG in this day and age. They are not perfect, but probably one of the best current 1:400 model manufacturers by more than one measure.
Of course, Aeroclassics is also a 1:400 giant and still has its niche in the market, and I don't think that's going to change in the near future, but the fact of the matter is that way too many quality issues with your models are becoming the norm. I am sure that you are probably the first one to notice them and it must be aggravating and frustrating, and if there was something you could do to fix things you would have already. It is unfortunate and I hope things can go back to what they used to be at some point.
This is only constructive criticism Andrew, I still eagerly look forward to the Mata Hari reports every month looking for something YV..., as well as everything else. I also love to write about the many Aeroclassic jewels I have in my collection, and that I hope to continue to add for years to come.
1/400collector
Well-known member
the pricing problem is mostly in ebay at the moment it will be a bit better if all will stop paying those prices and start making the sellers give normal prices and also not sell them for those high prices because saying that the model prices are high and than list a 737 1/400 for 500USD buy it now is just hypocrisy buy them only for reasonable prices to stop this madness.
EQ Planes
Active member
Yeah I think the most a 1:400 model should go for is 150 if it is super rare, but you have a point something it is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
Purpleplane
Well-known member
I won't go over $100, but that's just me personally.
1/400collector
Well-known member
For me it's 140 for a model that i have been looking for years like a EL AL 747 or Olympic Airways 747
Purpleplane
Well-known member
I could understand going that high for a 747.
Thanks Andrew, I picked up one of your NWA DC-9-50's (experimental C/S) for 7 quid, 7 QUID!! From ARD, cheaper than the toys I used to buy when I was 10!
The main seller I can think of is TriStar250.
1/400collector
Well-known member
Wow that's an amazing price for an amazing model!
