Out of Control Pricing of Second Hand Models

[redriveraviation]

I honestly don’t think that people should be allowed to determine there own “values” to models, there’s no “official” value to each models except it’s MSRP or what someone is willing to pay for it. And especially what I hate is when people try to give silly excuses and just straight up BS as their reason for overpricing a model, just say that you want more for that model, I don’t wanna hear “oh it’s worth that much blah blah.” That’s my take.

Completely agree. I really like the wording "willing to pay for it". Every situation is different, thus meaning the model is worth what it is worth in that situation.

 

[JJ Skippy]

I honestly don’t think that people should be allowed to determine there own “values” to models, there’s no “official” value to each models except it’s MSRP or what someone is willing to pay for it. And especially what I hate is when people try to give silly excuses and just straight up BS as their reason for overpricing a model, just say that you want more for that model, I don’t wanna hear “oh it’s worth that much blah blah.” That’s my take.

I like how @redriveraviation put it, what it’s worth in that situation. I would like to not pay so much for a lot of models that I need for my retro project, but sometimes I have to do it in order to get that model. It really depends on how much I need it, thus influencing my budget for the model.

 

[Purpleplane]

I like how @redriveraviation put it, what it’s worth in that situation. I would like to not pay so much for a lot of models that I need for my retro project, but sometimes I have to do it in order to get that model. It really depends on how much I need it, thus influencing my budget for the model.

Yes, I know what you mean. I personally haven't gotten to that point yet...so far.

 

[Jazajia]

My email: AK707 has just replied to that thread RS started in reference to the Lego store in Seattle that now also sells models, and whose owner happens to be AK's buddy.

Me: This is going to be good!

 

[Barison82]

Yes, I know what you mean. I personally haven't gotten to that point yet...so far.

…I won’t get to that point! I have an absolute limit now, and will not indulge these crazy sky-high auction prices! Keeping both feet firmly on the ground here There’s got to be a sensible balance and common sense. The rest is just madness

 

[Barison82]

Auctions are auctions and can have unpredictable results. If genuine and legit, then that’s what it is, and yes the model is worth what it is in that situation, and you can’t argue with that.

But where do you draw the line. You have the more extreme situations - a bidding war gets to that point and all common sense is lost, now it’s all about ego and ‘I must have it at all costs’, almost like uncontrollable gambling!

In with all this, there are a lot of shenanigans going on too and the more extreme, sky-high auction amounts are informing what some are perceiving to be ‘true market value’ of certain models, and are expecting this amount for them when sold at fairs etc. Not a very positive outcome for an ordinary collector just trying to build up their collection or fill in much-needed gaps.

I’m not saying our collections should be worthless, and in any collectible hobby there will be a natural appreciation in value for some of the harder to find or desirable items, that’s to be expected with limited edition collectibles.

However I feel that this is being artificially and deliberately inflated of late, in a rather unnatural way, and it’s all happening in the ebay world, where you can easily see the forced attempts to purposefully jack up the value and create hype. I’m not buying into this.

 

[Purpleplane]

…I won’t get to that point! I have an absolute limit now, and will not indulge these crazy sky-high auction prices! Keeping both feet firmly on the ground here There’s got to be a sensible balance and common sense. The rest is just madness

True. I really don't think I'll ever get to that point myself. There just isn't anything out there there that I want that bad.

 

[Jazajia]

…I won’t get to that point! I have an absolute limit now, and will not indulge these crazy sky-high auction prices! Keeping both feet firmly on the ground here There’s got to be a sensible balance and common sense. The rest is just madness

I think paying excessively for a model you really want is a good way to screw up the model. I would shudder every time I took a look at a model that was clearly and excessively overpriced.

Auctions are auctions and can have unpredictable results. If genuine and legit, then that’s what it is, and yes the model is worth what it is in that situation, and you can’t argue with that.

But where do you draw the line. You have the more extreme situations - a bidding war gets to that point and all common sense is lost, now it’s all about ego and ‘I must have it at all costs’, almost like uncontrollable gambling!

In with all this, there are a lot of shenanigans going on too and the more extreme, sky-high auction amounts are informing what some are perceiving to be ‘true market value’ of certain models, and are expecting this amount for them when sold at fairs etc. Not a very positive outcome for an ordinary collector just trying to build up their collection or fill in much-needed gaps.

I’m not saying our collections should be worthless, and in any collectible hobby there will be a natural appreciation in value for some of the harder to find or desirable items, that’s to be expected with limited edition collectibles.

However I feel that this is being artificially and deliberately inflated of late, in a rather unnatural way, and it’s all happening in the ebay world, where you can easily see the forced attempts to purposefully jack up the value and create hype. I’m not buying into this.

Excellent analysis of the eBay auction world and how is affecting the price of models.

I think what collectors and retailers need to understand is that even with legit and healthy eBay auctions, in which the model starting price is close to the original MSRP and the bidders are being honest and deliberate, the elevated price that some of these models end up going for doesn't mean that everyone is willing to pay that much for every model that is sold out.

There are usually a small number of people engaged in these auctions, and only one is willing to pay the final price, and that one person that was willing to drop some serious cash for that model is likely out of the market after that auction is over. But collectors see this and now they think their collection is a small fortune. Other sellers also see this and may start asking themselves why would they sell the same model for less. And again, the answer would be, because only one person was willing to pay that much for it, and that person already bought it .

I have come across a few auctions that display signs of shill bidding, and have seen auctions getting canceled because the model seemingly didn't reach the price the seller was expecting. These overinflated prices seemed to be exclusive to the eBay world but recently have spilled to the regular retailer world, primarily seen at new stores, but also at some of the traditional ones (, among others). Another problem I see is people coming across a "rare" model for a fair price, and buying it in hopes of flipping it for a profit. I will admit to having felt the temptation so I understand. But in the end, this also raises the offering prices, because the model will have to be sold at a price higher than fair to turn a profit.

I think it is fair to mention that there are several regular eBay sellers that list models at fair prices and will give you excellent service regardless of what price the model goes for. Additionally, there are some traditional retailers that on occasion list rare models for regular prices (JetCollector, Threshold).

Finally, I think supply and demand tend to work. An example of this would be Waffle recently deciding to dump a large part of his collection sale for prices that I had not seen in years. But I mean, after a while most old models, well, get too old to begging with, and most of them find their way to their final owners, new collectors with different interests arrive, etc... and of course, with current manufacturers pumping out new models at the rate they are, it is just a matter of time.

 

[Barison82]

I think paying excessively for a model you really want is a good way to screw up the model. I would shudder every time I took a look at a model that was clearly and excessively overpriced.



Excellent analysis of the eBay auction world and how is affecting the price of models.

I think what collectors and retailers need to understand is that even with legit and healthy eBay auctions, in which the model starting price is close to the original MSRP and the bidders are being honest and deliberate, the elevated price that some of these models end up going for doesn't mean that everyone is willing to pay that much for every model that is sold out.

There are usually a small number of people engaged in these auctions, and only one is willing to pay the final price, and that one person that was willing to drop some serious cash for that model is likely out of the market after that auction is over. But collectors see this and now they think their collection is a small fortune. Other sellers also see this and may start asking themselves why would they sell the same model for less. And again, the answer would be, because only one person was willing to pay that much for it, and that person already bought it .

I have come across a few auctions that display signs of shill bidding, and have seen auctions getting canceled because the model seemingly didn't reach the price the seller was expecting. These overinflated prices seemed to be exclusive to the eBay world but recently have spilled to the regular retailer world, primarily seen at new stores, but also at some of the traditional ones (, among others). Another problem I see is people coming across a "rare" model for a fair price, and buying it in hopes of flipping it for a profit. I will admit to having felt the temptation so I understand. But in the end, this also raises the offering prices, because the model will have to be sold at a price higher than fair to turn a profit.

I think it is fair to mention that there are several regular eBay sellers that list models at fair prices and will give you excellent service regardless of what price the model goes for. Additionally, there are some traditional retailers that on occasion list rare models for regular prices (JetCollector, Threshold).

Finally, I think supply and demand tend to work. An example of this would be Waffle recently deciding to dump a large part of his collection sale for prices that I had not seen in years. But I mean, after a while most old models, well, get too old to begging with, and most of them find their way to their final owners, new collectors with different interests arrive, etc... and of course, with current manufacturers pumping out new models at the rate they are, it is just a matter of time.

Thank you for this really considered reply - you nailed a lot of other things here as well, all very accurately reflecting the situation. The shill bidding and flipping behaviours are the two things which are really aggravating this hobby. Thank goodness we have fair sellers still out there, and I can vouch for all the retailers you mention above as I have found 'difficult' models from them a few times, all being offered at regular and fair prices. You just need to be quick!

 

[OscarBravo992]

Auctions are auctions and can have unpredictable results. If genuine and legit, then that’s what it is, and yes the model is worth what it is in that situation, and you can’t argue with that.

But where do you draw the line. You have the more extreme situations - a bidding war gets to that point and all common sense is lost, now it’s all about ego and ‘I must have it at all costs’, almost like uncontrollable gambling!

In with all this, there are a lot of shenanigans going on too and the more extreme, sky-high auction amounts are informing what some are perceiving to be ‘true market value’ of certain models, and are expecting this amount for them when sold at fairs etc. Not a very positive outcome for an ordinary collector just trying to build up their collection or fill in much-needed gaps.

I’m not saying our collections should be worthless, and in any collectible hobby there will be a natural appreciation in value for some of the harder to find or desirable items, that’s to be expected with limited edition collectibles.

However I feel that this is being artificially and deliberately inflated of late, in a rather unnatural way, and it’s all happening in the ebay world, where you can easily see the forced attempts to purposefully jack up the value and create hype. I’m not buying into this.

…I won’t get to that point! I have an absolute limit now, and will not indulge these crazy sky-high auction prices! Keeping both feet firmly on the ground here There’s got to be a sensible balance and common sense. The rest is just madness

You put this in a very clear and accurate way. I couldn't agree more with what you have said. Thank you.

 

[AKlein707]

It's not a personal problem - I haven't got an issue with the guy personally and the fact he's friends with AK merely illustrates his character. I was merely explaining why it came up. It is simply the truth that this store is selling at incredible prices.

He is far from alone in that, which is another reason why I didn't say his store by name. I see others doing the same - often without even being proper stores.

I'm not into vendettas. This is a worthwhile topic for discussion.

"I'm not into vendettas", says the guy who blocked me from every Facebook page he was associated with. Such a narcissistic hypocrite I've never encountered before!!

His so called reviews are a sick joke, because he's actually paid by NG/Panda to promote their products, so errors are always overlooked, those who mention them scorned, and the competing brands always shown to be inferior, even when they are clearly not! Bringing these facts up is called bullying apparently too!!
Seems the person in question had his own problems on this website long before I even joined, so let the facts prevail!!

I hope you're all enjoying your weekend and looking for some great models online. Even Ebay has good offerings; depends where you look!

 

[AKlein707]

The eBay user(s) who horde 5-10 new releases (noticeably Aeroclassics and NG's) and then put one model up for auction (one after the next one finishes) to rapidly inflate the market value and decrease the supply are the cancer of this hobby! Noticed is especially with the recent Aerounion releases and NG TWA/DL widget tristars. Pain in the a$$. Thankfully found both Aerounion's for a reasonable price.
One in particular ended one early 1 day before auction end due to no bids, asked about and to make an offer and was shoved away.

Very good point, and if these prolific scalpers can be listed, I will definitely do my part to making sure that they're not buying multiples of our new releases!! Seriously!!

During our recent Black Friday sale, I cancelled 2 orders, both for multiples of the same hot items, namely Ozark DC-9s and TWA L-1011s, as I refuse to allow my generosity of a sale to collectors to be abused by some greedy AH who will flip it on Ebay for a healthy profit. In spite of those two, our sale was a huge success with many cashing in on great prices, most in the low to mid $20s, and I'm happy for those who were able to get what they wanted for a great deal!!

 

[Jazajia]

"I'm not into vendettas", says the guy who blocked me from every Facebook page he was associated with. Such a narcissistic hypocrite I've never encountered before!!

His so called reviews are a sick joke, because he's actually paid by NG/Panda to promote their products, so errors are always overlooked, those who mention them scorned, and the competing brands always shown to be inferior, even when they are clearly not! Bringing these facts up is called bullying apparently too!!
Seems the person in question had his own problems on this website long before I even joined, so let the facts prevail!!

I hope you're all enjoying your weekend and looking for some great models online. Even Ebay has good offerings; depends where you look!

Hey Andrew I hope you are also enjoying your weekend. I think you went a bit too far on a few points there:

Richard doesn't always overlook errors, I was reading one of his recent reviews of an NG Fly Globespan 736 and he clearly mentioned how they made a mistake on the tail logo.

Then he also very recently gave a very favorable review to a China Eastern 773 by made by Phoenix. Up to not that long ago he continued to say that the Aeroclassics Douglas family and A300 are among the best in the industry. He was still making those comments after you guys had that big fallout.

He has said multiple times that he does not get compensated by any model brand other than being allowed to keep the samples they send him. If anything else goes on behind the scenes, I don't know. However, I think Richard's unconditional love for NG (which he does show...) is likely not because they pay him, but rather because he has a vested interest in making NG look good in pro of maintaining the good relationship they have, being able to continue to review their new samples, and ultimately increase the traffic and audience of Yesterday's Airlines. It is only logical, and I don't see anything wrong with it, especially after all the time and effort he puts into his excellent site.

Richard's reviews are not perfect, after all, they are his personal opinions (and he has acknowledged that), but they still provide a wealth of information on specific models, even if one has to filter through some of the material (To give one example of the stuff I filter: all of the "don't buy Phoenix 747s..." stuff...)

To be fair Andrew, and I'm saying this fully aware of the fact that you could go ballistic on me, It is easy to say good things about NG in this day and age. They are not perfect, but probably one of the best current 1:400 model manufacturers by more than one measure.

Of course, Aeroclassics is also a 1:400 giant and still has its niche in the market, and I don't think that's going to change in the near future, but the fact of the matter is that way too many quality issues with your models are becoming the norm. I am sure that you are probably the first one to notice them and it must be aggravating and frustrating, and if there was something you could do to fix things you would have already. It is unfortunate and I hope things can go back to what they used to be at some point.

This is only constructive criticism Andrew, I still eagerly look forward to the Mata Hari reports every month looking for something YV..., as well as everything else. I also love to write about the many Aeroclassic jewels I have in my collection, and that I hope to continue to add for years to come.

 

[1/400collector]

the pricing problem is mostly in ebay at the moment it will be a bit better if all will stop paying those prices and start making the sellers give normal prices and also not sell them for those high prices because saying that the model prices are high and than list a 737 1/400 for 500USD buy it now is just hypocrisy buy them only for reasonable prices to stop this madness.

 

[EQ Planes]

the pricing problem is mostly in ebay at the moment it will be a bit better if all will stop paying those prices and start making the sellers give normal prices and also not sell them for those high prices because saying that the model prices are high and than list a 737 1/400 for 500USD buy it now is just hypocrisy buy them only for reasonable prices to stop this madness.

Yeah I think the most a 1:400 model should go for is 150 if it is super rare, but you have a point something it is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

 

[Purpleplane]

I won't go over $100, but that's just me personally.

 

[1/400collector]

I won't go over $100, but that's just me personally.

For me it's 140 for a model that i have been looking for years like a EL AL 747 or Olympic Airways 747

 

[Purpleplane]

I could understand going that high for a 747.

 

[747438]

Very good point, and if these prolific scalpers can be listed, I will definitely do my part to making sure that they're not buying multiples of our new releases!! Seriously!!

During our recent Black Friday sale, I cancelled 2 orders, both for multiples of the same hot items, namely Ozark DC-9s and TWA L-1011s, as I refuse to allow my generosity of a sale to collectors to be abused by some greedy AH who will flip it on Ebay for a healthy profit. In spite of those two, our sale was a huge success with many cashing in on great prices, most in the low to mid $20s, and I'm happy for those who were able to get what they wanted for a great deal!!

Thanks Andrew, I picked up one of your NWA DC-9-50's (experimental C/S) for 7 quid, 7 QUID!! From ARD, cheaper than the toys I used to buy when I was 10!
The main seller I can think of is TriStar250.

 

[1/400collector]

Thanks Andrew, I picked up one of your NWA DC-9-50's (experimental C/S) for 7 quid, 7 QUID!! From ARD, cheaper than the toys I used to buy when I was 10!
The main seller I can think of is TriStar250.

Wow that's an amazing price for an amazing model!