abdulmohiuddin
Well-known member
It seems to have been deleted, but someone did indeed tell someone else those words
Aeroclassics July 2023 speculations
- Thread starter YYZ727
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Steinar
Well-known member
Dear Andrew Klein. Now I can no longer bear to listen/read about why you put your dark clouds over a friendly forum like this. I have been a loyal customer (and a grateful customer) for all the models you have produced over the years. I am very grateful for your models in my collection. No doubt about it.
Why destroy your brand and your "image" in this industry? The words that come out of your mouth are not worthy of THIS forum or anywhere else. Already read this message on "your own" forum where I have been a member since 2004. I like what you are doing (read models) but your expressions and "accusing everyone else", in the way you do, do not belong here.
I wish that you now focus on what you are good at and leave the rest for yourself. It sounds like you think you've already lost the battle, but keep doing what you're good at. It will be a Win-win situation!
From a loyal customer with concerns about the future.
Steinar, I sincerely appreciate your remarks, and the support of my product over the years. Please note however, that before even my first post this week, I was labelled as a Fascist on this forum. I too am worried about the future if I can not reply to such ugly words!! On a separate thread, I was told to "fuck off", and on a third thread, since deleted by the author, I was hurled every vulgarity known to mankind, completely unprovoked, and based on a third party's actions. I think this forum is not so friendly as you think? Have a great weekend!!
Transnat
New member
I don't think that's actually the case Adrian. In fact I think he's only too happy to have his product promoted wherever and whenever he can. I suspect it's the vitriol on some forums that is the real issue. It's only a hobby. I'm not sure why some collectors seem to become so bitter and twisted.
thiscooldude
Active member
I believe the one that told you to "fuck off" was by Richard, and no. he's not biased
Jazajia
Well-known member
The post is in the 720 Mold review thread.
I am glad to see that there are still people with a sense of decency here. There is a very decadent trend going on in this forum: the normalization of indecency and profanity. Just to be clear, is not that I don't curse in certain situations, but come on...
Andrew has heard some flavor of this narrative plenty of times. As recently as yesterday I offered him the option to PM me everything he wanted to post here as long as it kept him from adding to the fire and tarnishing AC's public image as you said, but once again I have been reminded that we control very little of our surroundings, but we do control how we interact with it.
Many of you might remember - and if you don't you can go and dig out some old threads over at DAC, if you have time to spare - that, much in the same way Richard cannot tolerate that some collectors are okay with molds that according to him shouldn't exist, Andrew used to become a true monster when brands like Magic, etc, were attempting to compete with Aercolcassics. That attitude and the toxicity that surrounded it (plenty of supporters, you just couldn't post a photo of a Magic, et al model, just like posting a photo of a Phoenix 747 is a bit of a tabu in these times) played a big part in me taking a break from the hobby.
With time I learned how to be more confident among the online collecting community, and realized that Andrew was not a monster, he just had a very strong personality. Also, it is extremely important to realize that we don't behave in a normal way when behind a keyboard. Recently I finally had the honor of meeting Andrew in person, and yes it was an honor, because like many here, I am in this hobby almost entirely because of what Aeroclassics has done. Aeroclassics is a true dream for us small-scale aircraft model enthusiasts. And while he was busy doing real-world business, I managed to interact enough with him to realize that he is a true aviation enthusiast and not a monster at all, again, just a person with a strong personality that has a bad tendency to get carried away behind the keyboard (I know he won't mind me saying this). In fact, we even had a discussion about Magic models, I thought you couldn't even mention the brand in front of him! But that's not quite the case, he's got a wealth of knowledge in this hobby. And by the way, Aeroclassics is far from dead. Certainly facing some serious competition, but not dead.
I cannot emphasize how important it is to get out of the computer go and get out into the real-world aspect of this hobby. I want to say that a lot of the "if I owned my model company I would..." comments will disappear from these forums rather quickly after a brief word exchange with some of the manufacturers. Just my opinion.
Well, I really hate not having anything better to do than to keep beating on a dead horse, but the fact of the matter is that I don't have anything better to do right now, so I'll say it again: Andrew, don't keep biting the bait, don't waste your energy adding more fuel to this fire, instead use that energy to keep Aeroclassics going, the list is still long and the night still young
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With Richard, the opposite has happened to me. Just like Andrew's authoritarian ruling played a big role in scaring me away from the hobby in the mid-2010s, by 2019 the discovery of Yesterday's Airlines played a very important role in me getting back into it.
Unfortunately, I have continuously grown more and more disenchanted with Richard.
I will always have an innate respect for Yesterday's Airlines (just like I do with Aeroclassics). But I think Richard's ego is at the center of these very arguments.
Here we go again beating on a dead horse and repeating myself... The work Richard has done, though worthy of recognition and admiration, is quickly overshadowed when he starts to make strong statements such as "Nobody should buy models from this brand," etc. Not to mention that he has developed a habit of incorporating vulgarity and profanity in his toolbox, and is spreading and normalizing that behavior among the younger crowd in this forum.
thiscooldude
Active member
Nice Write up, ill have to check old DA.C posts to see for myself, but that made me view Richard differently.The post is in the 720 Mold review thread.
I am glad to see that there are still people with a sense of decency here. There is a very decadent trend going on in this forum: the normalization of indecency and profanity. Just to be clear, is not that I don't curse in certain situations, but come on...
Andrew has heard some flavor of this narrative plenty of times. As recently as yesterday I offered him the option to PM me everything he wanted to post here as long as it kept him from adding to the fire and tarnishing AC's public image as you said, but once again I have been reminded that we control very little of our surroundings, but we do control how we interact with it.
Many of you might remember - and if you don't you can go and dig out some old threads over at DAC, if you have time to spare - that, much in the same way Richard cannot tolerate that some collectors are okay with molds that according to him shouldn't exist, Andrew used to become a true monster when brands like Magic, etc, were attempting to compete with Aercolcassics. That attitude and the toxicity that surrounded it (plenty of supporters, you just couldn't post a photo of a Magic, et al model, just like posting a photo of a Phoenix 747 is a bit of a tabu in these times) played a big part in me taking a break from the hobby.
With time I learned how to be more confident among the online collecting community, and realized that Andrew was not a monster, he just had a very strong personality. Also, it is extremely important to realize that we don't behave in a normal way when behind a keyboard. Recently I finally had the honor of meeting Andrew in person, and yes it was an honor, because like many here, I am in this hobby almost entirely because of what Aeroclassics has done. Aeroclassics is a true dream for us small-scale aircraft model enthusiasts. And while he was busy doing real-world business, I managed to interact enough with him to realize that he is a true aviation enthusiast and not a monster at all, again, just a person with a strong personality that has a bad tendency to get carried away behind the keyboard (I know he won't mind me saying this). In fact, we even had a discussion about Magic models, I thought you couldn't even mention the brand in front of him! But that's not quite the case, he's got a wealth of knowledge in this hobby. And by the way, Aeroclassics is far from dead. Certainly facing some serious competition, but not dead.
I cannot emphasize how important it is to get out of the computer go and get out into the real-world aspect of this hobby. I want to say that a lot of the "if I owned my model company I would..." comments will disappear from these forums rather quickly after a brief word exchange with some of the manufacturers. Just my opinion.
Well, I really hate not having anything better to do than to keep beating on a dead horse, but the fact of the matter is that I don't have anything better to do right now, so I'll say it again: Andrew, don't keep biting the bait, don't waste your energy adding more fuel to this fire, instead use that energy to keep Aeroclassics going, the list is still long and the night still young
-------------------------------------------------------------
With Richard, the opposite has happened to me. Just like Andrew's authoritarian ruling played a big role in scaring me away from the hobby in the mid-2010s, by 2019 the discovery of Yesterday's Airlines played a very important role in me getting back into it.
Unfortunately, I have continuously grown more and more disenchanted with Richard.
I will always have an innate respect for Yesterday's Airlines (just like I do with Aeroclassics). But I think Richard's ego is at the center of these very arguments.
Here we go again beating on a dead horse and repeating myself... The work Richard has done, though worthy of recognition and admiration, is quickly overshadowed when he starts to make strong statements such as "Nobody should buy models from this brand," etc. Not to mention that he has developed a habit of incorporating vulgarity and profanity in his toolbox, and is spreading and normalizing that behavior among the younger crowd in this forum.
YesterAirlines
Well-known member
You get branded because you have a long history of acting like a bully and a horrible person across many years. You are banned and deleted from places because you break the rules of those places constantly. You are the one who is in the wrong and you are the one behaving badly by writing lies and vulgarities constantly. It is not unprovoked - all you do is provoke people. I am tired of you and your threats.
The man literally hounds me and follows me around. I told him to F Off because he threatened me with legal action again for absolutely nothing. He is constantly rude and disrespectful and has been for years and years to many many people. If you don't want vulgarity then Klein is the problem and causing it.
How would you react Transnat after years and years of this?
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YesterAirlines
Well-known member
Please don't listen to Jorge he is wrong and an apologist for anything Klein does. Try and find the threads Jorge is on about. It is nonsense. I don't care what Jorge thinks because once again all he wants is censorship. Now look for Klein's post history anywhere and you'll see it is lies and slander.
It is not about ego. It is about the right to freedom of speech - something Jorge doesn't believe people should have. I want to write about models. I have the right to do so and say whatever I want as long as it is about models. Nobody has the right to tell me what to say about models. Whether Jorge likes the tone or not is irrelevent because he doesn't get to tell anybody what they can write either. That seems to upset him because he always wants people to behave to his ludicrous moral code he created and tries to inflict on everyone else even when nobody is breaking the rules.
Andrew Klein wants to stop people talking about models too, especially his ones, and if you look at anything he writes the way he does it is to abuse them and attack them personally. When that doesn't work he then threatens them with legal action. He then gets his minions to delete their posts at 400 echo chamber and incites his other minions to attack them elsewhere.
He also has a history of actively attacking his competitors over unproven allegations he has made.
He never responds on topic or about the models. It is always about the people. where he says this sort of thing:
You judge who is the monster here.
YesterAirlines
Well-known member
That is a straight out lie. I will say they are good or bad and I will say I would prefer people didn't buy them but I don't mind people buying them just not lying to themselves. Jorge has his feelings hurt when anyone criticises a mould he has. His behaviour is very childish and basically he wants people to stop discussing things and put their fingers in their ears.
I have repeatedly linked to Jorge's articles from my own to show the other side of the argument so please explain how I 'cannot tolerate' that collectors are ok with them?
Just because he is nice in person doesn't remove the years of abuse and slander and hate the man has spread. You pretend to have morals and thrust them at other people and yet you are so starstruck he could do anything and as long as he is nice in person that is ok. You are an appeaser of him and an apologist. What he has done with Aeroclassics is irrelevent if what else he does is morally indefensible.
I have never made that statement. It is another lie.
Are you serious blaming me for normalising swearing among young people. Listen to yourself. I think children swear already. Your moral crusade is laughable and actually quite offensive to me.
Personally I find the statements you are making here more offensive than any swear word. The equivocation you make between me and Klein is laughable and your constant support for his appalling behaviour disgusting.
Jazajia
Well-known member
It is a hobby, I would have been content if you would have just ignored my opinion entirely. I wasn't expecting a response in all honesty.
You don't know what I believe or don't believe in.
And you are absolutely correct. However, the way I see it (as in my personal opinion which not everyone might agree with) is that one of the main causes of these arguments, at least in this day and age, is that you don't take it too well when people don't agree with your opinion. Awfully similar to when AK doesn't take it too well when people criticize Aeroclassics. Are you sure you guys are not related?
Yeah, whatever...
You don't know what I believe or don't believe in.
And you are absolutely correct. However, the way I see it (as in my personal opinion which not everyone might agree with) is that one of the main causes of these arguments, at least in this day and age, is that you don't take it too well when people don't agree with your opinion. Awfully similar to when AK doesn't take it too well when people criticize Aeroclassics. Are you sure you guys are not related?
Yeah, whatever...
Jazajia
Well-known member
I have explained this before. Yes, it does hurt when you get excited about a certain model, you go take pictures and write a nice post about it and then the first comment is something along the lines of: "What a piece of crap." "How horrible that is." "People please save your money." And on and on. I am not the only collector who thinks like that though. Could we grow a thicker skin, sure. I feel that many have just left the discussion boards.
I have tried to explain that in some cases it is better to say nothing if one doesn't have anything nice to say. It is not censorship, it is common courtesy, assertiveness.
Of course, people can discuss models, I have also participated in said discussions.
If you want to call that childish behavior, go right ahead, there is nothing I can do.
I don't know Richard, this is a very one-sided argument. At any rate, it seems more like a problem between you and Andrew.
I don't think I'm lying. Honestly, I am actually getting tired of this so I'm not about to go browsing your post history, or your YouTube videos, but unless my mind displaying tricks on me, I'm pretty sure you have said that you do want to influence collector behavior and that no-one should be buying Phoenix 747s.
Misunderstanding maybe instead of lying?
Well, you just said:
So? do you care if I or anyone gets offended by your actions?
-----------------
You think children swear already. So? Does that mean it is okay?
Again, I find a lot of similarities in your guys' behavior. I didn't expect you to agree with me. Do you find it disgusting? Tell me something I didn't already know. Did I tell you Im not fond of the tab on your site that is labeled "Awful Phoenix 747"? That is my problem if I don't like it, isn't it?
Richard, it is just a hobby.
planes_on_a_shelf
Well-known member
@YesterAirlines, @YankeeVictor
Dear Richard, Dear Jorge,
I really request both of you to call a truce, as uneasy as it may be.
In my view, both of you occupy the same space within this hobby - that of commentators involved in discussing and critiquing aspects of this hobby - models, manufacturers, histories, challenges, prospects, concerns, etc.
Which is an important place to be in, and operate out of. In fact, it is a significant space and a space of responsibility.
I appreciate the work both of you put in, in your own ways, and I enjoy reading what both of you write, each in your own way. I may not always agree, but that isn't the point, I enjoy being a part of the sheer intensity, joy and enquiry.
As such, I would really request both of you to not work against each other. It isn't important to see eye to eye, neither is it necessary to always agree, as that's boring and we need a diversity of view points.
This is a serious hobby, and requires serious thought and writing.
Please find a way of working with each other's presence, and not to stoop to the level of personal attacks, as others may. That's their prerogative, but needn't be yours.
At the same time, request both of you to not be reactionary, not become weaponised by others, and nor become unwitting pawns in someone else's game of offensive provocation and calculated divisiveness to divert attention away from the actual hobby - and the models and their quality and depth of detail and research and what have you that is the crux of an adult collector hobby.
I'm sure I'm representing most, if not all, of the collectorate, in requesting both of you to reach a truce, however uneasy it may be at the beginning.
You are invited to a round of virtual beer (or coffee) to settle this hopefully soon enough.
Cheers and Hugs,
Suprio
Dear Richard, Dear Jorge,
I really request both of you to call a truce, as uneasy as it may be.
In my view, both of you occupy the same space within this hobby - that of commentators involved in discussing and critiquing aspects of this hobby - models, manufacturers, histories, challenges, prospects, concerns, etc.
Which is an important place to be in, and operate out of. In fact, it is a significant space and a space of responsibility.
I appreciate the work both of you put in, in your own ways, and I enjoy reading what both of you write, each in your own way. I may not always agree, but that isn't the point, I enjoy being a part of the sheer intensity, joy and enquiry.
As such, I would really request both of you to not work against each other. It isn't important to see eye to eye, neither is it necessary to always agree, as that's boring and we need a diversity of view points.
This is a serious hobby, and requires serious thought and writing.
Please find a way of working with each other's presence, and not to stoop to the level of personal attacks, as others may. That's their prerogative, but needn't be yours.
At the same time, request both of you to not be reactionary, not become weaponised by others, and nor become unwitting pawns in someone else's game of offensive provocation and calculated divisiveness to divert attention away from the actual hobby - and the models and their quality and depth of detail and research and what have you that is the crux of an adult collector hobby.
I'm sure I'm representing most, if not all, of the collectorate, in requesting both of you to reach a truce, however uneasy it may be at the beginning.
You are invited to a round of virtual beer (or coffee) to settle this hopefully soon enough.
Cheers and Hugs,
Suprio
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Except, you left out the part that Ramachand spends 90 lakh INR p/a at DD, and 20 lakh p/a INR at BB, Ramachand also only spends 30 lakh at CC as they don't have convenient locations, but is very satisfied when he uses CC as they try to innovate but they have started catering to a different customer base, which isn't in Ramachand's niche. Ramachand encounters and uses more of DD's buildings so is able to review them more and find more flaws in the buildings structure. DD can either use this information as constructive criticism, or put the info to the side as bias, because they don't use CC as much and can't review as many, therefore, less flaws are found. Ramachand also constantly praises DD for their achievements and the things they do correctly, but DD chooses to ignore this too as it is so imprinted in the beliefs of DD that Ramachand hates their business and wants it to go bankrupt.
Tom is a vegan, tom wants to push people away from McDonald's, and push the business ratings down to try and make people avoid it, because he hates people enjoying their freedom and eating meat. However, Tom needs to provide evidence of a purchase in order to write a review, so he goes into the store and buys 3 big macs, eats them and then goes to the review site and then goes on about how bad the food was. This doesn't make sense!
1/400collector
Well-known member
I honestly have no idea where all of those bizarre stories about building companies amd McDonald's come from i was sure that this is a aviation forum. I mean they are way to long so the reader just losses interest in them 1 paragraph in. So TLDR plz
YesterAirlines
Well-known member
If Jorge doesn't want to be involved or get responses then he should stay out of it. The reality is that about the only person defending Klein on here (or anywhere) is him because what he does and is doing is indefensible. Fundamentally despite all the rubbish it is very simple:
Do you believe that you or I have the right to write about and say what we want to about diecast model aircraft without being hounded, lied about, slandered and threatened?
There is no more to it than that, because I have done nothing more than that - and very even handedly actually. Everything else said by Klein and Jorge is irrelevent because although they are welcome to their opinions they are not welcome to do the latter part of the sentence. If you do that there are consequences. If you support people doing that there should be consequences.
It is just a hobby @YankeeVictor so why am I being threatened by Klein? Partly it is because people like you allow him to continue his behaviour.
And yes it is fine to swear - in fact it is a healthy and enriching part of language. As in everything it is the context that matters. Your view is that it wrong to swear anytime but calling someone a 'narcissist' or ' a cancer' is fine and would only become wrong if they were called a 'f**king narcissist'. Ludicrous.
Do you believe that you or I have the right to write about and say what we want to about diecast model aircraft without being hounded, lied about, slandered and threatened?
There is no more to it than that, because I have done nothing more than that - and very even handedly actually. Everything else said by Klein and Jorge is irrelevent because although they are welcome to their opinions they are not welcome to do the latter part of the sentence. If you do that there are consequences. If you support people doing that there should be consequences.
It is just a hobby @YankeeVictor so why am I being threatened by Klein? Partly it is because people like you allow him to continue his behaviour.
And yes it is fine to swear - in fact it is a healthy and enriching part of language. As in everything it is the context that matters. Your view is that it wrong to swear anytime but calling someone a 'narcissist' or ' a cancer' is fine and would only become wrong if they were called a 'f**king narcissist'. Ludicrous.
YesterAirlines
Well-known member
And I challenge anyone here to show anywhere where I have written something untrue or false or inaccurate that would deserve the attention I get.
And lastly if there was any truth to the allegations Klein makes about his competition then he should deal with it in the courts. The fact is he's never shown any evidence to support his accusations and has a history of lying and slandering competitors. Regardless it is nothing to do with me in anyway. I can write and say what I want within the law and even what he says in his laughable nonsense about poor Ramachand is a lie.
And lastly if there was any truth to the allegations Klein makes about his competition then he should deal with it in the courts. The fact is he's never shown any evidence to support his accusations and has a history of lying and slandering competitors. Regardless it is nothing to do with me in anyway. I can write and say what I want within the law and even what he says in his laughable nonsense about poor Ramachand is a lie.
AndreiKlinger727
New member
In case some body doesn't feel like looking for the hints here they are:
at least 1 N,RP-, PH-, C-, G-, TU-,VT-,
(using this account so my main won't get banned from this forum)
at least 1 N,RP-, PH-, C-, G-, TU-,VT-,
(using this account so my main won't get banned from this forum)
planes_on_a_shelf
Well-known member
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