Phoenix April 2023 Release
- Thread starter KL808
- Start date
Alzyerpal
Well-known member
All true, all very true. But nobody else is producing 747 classics. Gemini Jets probably won't be sprung into action until NG announces something. The GJ mould is way better than the Phoenix, yet they do nothing with it. Who's to blame for that...Phoenix ?Phoenix do have some responsibility here - they could have produced some nice new toolings to compete but would rather not make that investment in their products, and instead grab easy money with their current offerings because people will still buy them - all of which will be left in the dust if NG comes on the scene with their own 747 classics!
Each to their own, however - I'm not going to give you a hard time because you're adding Phoenix Jumbos to your collection
Barison82
Well-known member
I do understand the need to fill gaps in a collectionWell, I haven't clicked on the buy button yet (though I will likely do it at some point) I love the Landor livery but try to limit myself to the types that visited CCS. I had a disproportionate amount of L1011s, so about 6 months ago I went and got an old (and pretty ugly) GJ British Asia Airways 744 to balance the collection out; these Phoenix 747 would do a better job at that. In fact, not long ago I had such an urge to add more BA Landor 747s to my collection that I ordered ARD200 G-BNLL (still waiting on the Phoenix's UA772 and LH A346 for combined shipping). I very seldom drift into 1:200, but I figured it was a way better deal than chasing around one of the BigBirds, which beyond the beautifully shaped nose are not all that fantastic anyway.
I'm still hoping JC and the NG folks get their heads out of their rear and stop ignoring the contemporary classics. Look at all the excitement surrounding the JC UA Saul Bass 744s, and the GJ TWA MD-80. A fair amount of people are also talking a lot about Phoenix's purple top FedEx MD-11 and the Battleship grey 772. We also know that these Landors that just got announced will sell well, Phoenix mold and all... But hey I guess we need another A350 or 748 first...
The well has been dry for classic 747 ‘grails for some time, and the original BB400’s have just become ridiculously expensive and difficult for many to obtain. The JC United 744 was well received as was the GJ TWA MD-80 (I picked that one up, first ‘mad dog’ for the collection). It’s just a shame that Phoenix couldn’t have a better tooling to use as their printing quality is actually pretty decent and solid. It would have been a very expensive month otherwise, 5 releases there that I would’ve had which at the UK retail price would be the best part of £300 
…I’ll hang back and see what develops with NG, I did that with the L-1011 and it was worth it in the end!
Alzyerpal
Well-known member
It's not great, but the 400 to me looks worse, regardless of the livery choice. I just can't see past that bulging nose on the 400, whereas it's much less noticeable on the 100 and 200. Perhaps because of the shorter, non stretched upper deck, I don't know ?
Barison82
Well-known member
Yeah, I do appreciate that point, the drought with other manufacturer’s is not the fault of Phoenix however I still think they could step up to the mark and produce a better tooling for the 747 - especially if these releases here are reactionary to forthcoming activity from NG, as you previously suggested (and I agree with). However by them sticking to this old tooling and running a sudden glut of classics suggests a quick money-grab before the quality stuff comes along, by which time this mould will be ‘down and out’. No one is investing in new, quality classic 747 moulds to compete, which leaves the floor open to NG should they follow on after the 748’s.
Barison82
Well-known member
I pulled out my lone Phoenix 742 I bought years ago (lives under the storage bed in shame lol), the CX delivery c/s VR-HKG. Nose is still bulgy, all the wrong shape, cockpit window profile is awful, and the upper deck shape is not right, too flat along the top before the downward slope begins…the RB 211 engines are also awful! Fan blades are nearly flush with the intake cowlings and their shape is totally off…wings are not right, they have a heavy look to them, drooping downwards plus they have the -400 series wing-box fairings! Totally incorrect for a -200 and it sticks out like a sore thumb (not sure if this has been corrected or not since)…there’s too many issues to mention! Plus, the metal finish has dulled and tarnished (it’s lived in the box the whole time)
Crikey, I’m a cheerful old sod when I get going
It’s not for me but I’m not going to lambast folk who add PX 747’s to their collections, everyone has different criteria and I respect that.
pons399
Well-known member
When NG do follow up, I hope they do so after improving the 748's front end. Would be a real shame if the cockpit windows and forehead are carried over to the classics, especially since there's been so much feedback for the -8. NG's reception has been positive so far, but I'd like to see some concrete improvements (or indications that they're being worked on) soon.
Barison82
Well-known member
I know, that’s the one area which has been an issue since the SP debuted, as the cockpit profile on that is slightly off as well. Still light years apart from what has gone before, though! If they get that key part right, their tooling stands to be of definitive quality as per their L-1011. They’re so close!
Jazajia
Well-known member
I do understand the need to fill gaps in a collection
…I’ll hang back and see what develops with NG, I did that with the L-1011 and it was worth it in the end!
Yeah, I guess I forgot to mention that I do have two BA Landor 74s in 1:400, one being GJ G-CIVI, which I think is the best all-around BA Landor jumbo in 1:400; the other one is G-BDXI. I just want more of them! My Landor collection just looked weird with considerably more TriStars than jumbos, but I certainly won't be paying $100+ for each of the BigBirds, if I can even find them. I am also thinking about what I'm going to do with these Phoenix from a financial standpoint (probably the -200, and -400 once I see pictures of them) The beauty is that there is no hurry since a good number of collectors can't get pass the mold ( though I believe there are enough "closeted" collectors to potentially make those things fly off the shelves quicker than one would expect), and Phoenix themselves seem to be pretty good at producing more than enough, and then some.
Thanks for bringing up your experience with NGs L1011 as I wasn't active when NG entered the business. Part of me is also inclined to wait for a potential NG mold, but I sense it is going to be a good while before we see the much-needed wave of classic 747 re-releases in a top-notch mold. I hope I am wrong.
quanng
Well-known member
I would argue with this. Undoubtedly is their A350s so inferior but their 777s are made great. The engine size is correct, good ground clearance, tilt main gear and they might get the font right too.
OscarBravo992
Well-known member
NG made some Finnair A350s on their excellent mould late last year, if you can still find one it would be worth getting over the PH. The same goes for the Lufthansa, although PH's 777 mould is decent.
Tropicalista
Active member
Nothing for my wallet... I was waiting start air 767
planes_on_a_shelf
Well-known member
@Barison82 totally agree. I'm waiting it out as well for NG's 747 moulds - am happy if JC /GJ release anything in the interim on their BB catalogue - if it takes a couple of years or so, so be it, but it doesn't work for me to spend twice on something I'd want, but won't be happy having. Because the collectorate isn't discerning, it allows for sub-par moulds and products to exist. And thus it brings down the overall average quality standards of what is deemed as acceptable. And then I find it absurd and in fact disgusting, when the excellent manufacturers get panned over minor issues, while we celebrate and elevate mediocrity and inaccuracy. Never mind.
Barison82
Well-known member
There’ll be plenty of collectors/casual hobbyist’s outside these forums who’ll happily pick up the Phoenix releases with no qualms at all, I’m sure. I’d like more Landor 747s too, but of consistent (or better) mould quality to what I already have. If NG ever makes one, the colours should match their TriStars, too! (That’s other issue with collecting Landor c/s across manufacturer’s various, or even within the same make sometimes - the colours never match).
Welcome, patience is a virtue and not everyone is prepared to wait for something which might not happen for a while yet. From what I recall, the first signs that something was happening with an L-1011 in 1/400 was around late 2017, with revised tooling first coming out from JC, then GJ using those same moulds, after many years of nothing. Then AC came out with theirs in early 2019; then NG’s landed in June of that year.
We might see a similar hive of activity after these releases here - hopefully!
I’ll happily remain contented with my lone Landor 741 for now
1/400collector
Well-known member
I just need those good classics 747s to come before 3 years pass because other wise it would be useless for me
pons399
Well-known member
Yep, it's appalling to see what companies get away with. Cradle moulds in 2023? Really? JC's printing, fit and finish in 1:200 were so atrocious I stopped collecting that scale altogether; models with defects were literally more common than those without. Verbal criticism is ineffective, as the old big names (JC/GJ, PH, AC) are vehemently unwilling to accept any sort of collector feedback.
... Which leads to brands that do listen (NG, AV400) to get "panned" over minor errors. Since we know criticism can lead to improvements, it's in our best interests to thoroughly dissect everything and help companies create the best product they can. For me, the 748 is something that needs to be done absolutely right. Since both the JC and PH moulds are mediocre to downright horrible, I've found myself poring over every detail and sending suggestions to NG almost daily, even though their version is already superior. Same goes for many others here, moreso because of the upcoming Classics. Since we're so limited in communication options, might as well make the most of what we have.
Barison82
Well-known member
I’m in exactly the same camp - I’d happily take JC/AC 747s in the meantime (BB400 moulds) or GJ (they use their own tooling still - or did, anyway), as I would always keep these in my collection regardless of what happens - even though these toolings are older and not 100% in places, they’re not sub-par.
NG gets raked over the coals and scrutinised far more heavily over the smallest of details because of the close tolerances they set right at the start - it might not be fair, but this is what happens when the level of detail is elevated to that extent and then the expectation of consistency remains afterwards for that brand… however, the level of hypocrisy would be absurd if these same nit-pickers were happily accepting the Phoenix mould in the meantime! Creating 2 different sets of rules: it’s not ok for NG to be out my a fraction of a .5mm but it’s ok for Phoenix as their standards are way lower - so aim low and you won’t be disappointed! However, their prices aren’t lower…
Alzyerpal
Well-known member
Yes they certainly could improve their 747's but again why would they go that expense if nobody is going to compete with them ? I'm not excusing them of course, but why spend the money if nobody else is going to go head to head with them ? This is why I criticise other 747 mould holders so much. They have every opportunity to make the Phoenix 747 history but for whatever reason, simply do not.
