Model teaser from HX model, partially physical.

According to MHH FB page, they are releasing a Qantas 747 soon

 
According to MHH FB page, they are releasing a Qantas 747 soon


Not just a regular Qantas 747-400 model, but one carrying a 5th engine on the wing pod! Very cool stuff!
 
Here's a close up of the inner HX pylon in question (taken from an image shared by Jazajia) compared to the real 747-121 pylon on N747GE. I see at least 4 areas of improvement:

View attachment 47656
  1. The thickness of the wing
  2. The pylon shape
  3. The engine cowl shape
  4. The inlet ring being a separate piece is adding extra thickness and chunkiness
Happy Collecting!

Yes this isn't an operational 747 I agree but as a 400 times smaller replica I think you're being harsh. The wing thickness comes down to having a model that doesn't have wings that snap off when you touch it. I don't see anything wrong with the pylon shape and the inlet ring is poorly fitted on that particular example. It is an extra piece to allow the fan detailing. Once again, to get a model 400 times smaller you can't make a 100% replica - compromises are required. The image below is from the HX prototype. You'll notice the inlet ring is fitted better.

I maintain the accuracy you are looking for isn't achievable at the price bracket you want or without risking QC issues that make the model hard to ship. To my eye this is a near perfect engine pylon set for a 400 scale 747.

You're all going to be waiting an eternity for a better 747 in 400 scale because the NG's engines / pylons don't match this, even if they modify them.

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I maintain the accuracy you are looking for isn't achievable at the price bracket you want or without risking QC issues that make the model hard to ship. To my eye this is a near perfect engine pylon set for a 400 scale 747.

I back you up on this. I think many of us need to understand that these models are very labor-intensive. Combine that with the fact that they are relatively in low demand, and it becomes evident that these models should cost more, but the industry is largely kept alive by a bunch of aviation nuts who, to some extent, subsidize it.

Also, there are as many of us collectors complaining for more accuracy as there are those who complain about poor QC. Some are even on both bands. Guys, I have been hinting at it for a while: These models don't travel well. The more detail and accuracy you get come at the expense of more pieces scattered around the cradle when you receive the model.

You're all going to be waiting an eternity for a better 747 in 400 scale because the NG's engines / pylons don't match this, even if they modify them.

I do disagree with you here. I think continuous improvement is possible. So, at some point, we could be getting even more accuracy combined with ways to ship these things all around the world while minimizing breakage - I have to say that, coincidentally, I'm very impressed with HX. Two dozen 747s, and so far I have only found one loose stab - clean with no paint chipping. I don't think I can say that of any other brand. I have 5 left to inspect... I hope I didn't jinx myself.

My point is that there is nothing wrong with pointing out mistakes and areas of improvement, but at the same time we should step back and recognize how far the industry has come. The manufacturers, who read these forums, by the way, will appreciate it.
 
I do disagree with you here. I think continuous improvement is possible. So, at some point, we could be getting even more accuracy combined with ways to ship these things all around the world while minimizing breakage - I have to say that, coincidentally, I'm very impressed with HX. Two dozen 747s, and so far I have only found one loose stab - clean with no paint chipping. I don't think I can say that of any other brand. I have 5 left to inspect... I hope I didn't jinx myself.
I agree there may be future improvements that can be made but realistically nobody at present is showing more technical prowess than NG, HX, JC and Panda. The former has been failing to produce a decent 747 for over 3 years, JC seem content to use the old BigBirds and Panda haven't shown any interest. It has been 17 years since the last new 747-100/200 mould was created and I would be surprised to see another one anytime soon except for the NG (which isn't going to be appreciably better than this).
My point is that there is nothing wrong with pointing out mistakes and areas of improvement, but at the same time we should sstep back and recognize how far the industry has come. The manufacturers, who read these forums, by the way, will appreciate it.

Definitely nothing wrong with criticism but the expectation that HX should be making anything but minor mods to this 747 (and then only on ares that don't incur huge costsd like landing gear and vertical stabs) is madness.

And I would question how much the manufacturers appreciate this level of critique - believe me! Obviously some hate any discussion but even those open to a lot get tired of the heavier b**ching and moaning and step away from public spaces because of it.
 
Yes this isn't an operational 747 I agree but as a 400 times smaller replica I think you're being harsh. The wing thickness comes down to having a model that doesn't have wings that snap off when you touch it. I don't see anything wrong with the pylon shape and the inlet ring is poorly fitted on that particular example. It is an extra piece to allow the fan detailing. Once again, to get a model 400 times smaller you can't make a 100% replica - compromises are required. The image below is from the HX prototype. You'll notice the inlet ring is fitted better.

I maintain the accuracy you are looking for isn't achievable at the price bracket you want or without risking QC issues that make the model hard to ship. To my eye this is a near perfect engine pylon set for a 400 scale 747.

You're all going to be waiting an eternity for a better 747 in 400 scale because the NG's engines / pylons don't match this, even if they modify them.

View attachment 47671
Richard, I understand that the technical/engineering part of the hobby isn't your speciality.
There's a lot that can be done and plenty of moulds showcase this. The question is what the manufacturer is trying to achive with a given budget (scale accuracy or "gimmicks") and I observe that HX goes a different way than what Panda or NG usually go.

For sure HX wont do a new wing. NOT because the wings would snap (come on ?!) when they are realistically thick - they aren't far from it and only have an incorrect airfoil - but because benefits are in absolutely no relation to effort. We all agree, but hey, this is a discussion forum, isn't it?

The pylons could be adjusted to fit the given wing profile by just altering the LE and the contact line to the wing. A retool that only depends on whether HX are content with what they have or not. But a problem for neither engineering nor quality.

Thinking about the engine I'd have half a dozen different approaches in mind of how to design a 400 scale JT9D. HX opted for the more complex approach which sadly doesn't yield the highest accuracy, but follows the recent trend of having more gimmicks. Hollow core with 16 fan blades to "see through"! Too bad the real thing barely allows any see through with its 46 (!) blades. So instead of adding all this complexity and possible QC issues with that inlet ring and see through fan, they could have easily gone the simple appraoch with a solid core fan and a single piece fan cowl. While maybe not achieving a proper count of 46, it would have led to a noticably increased scale accuracy around the inlet, likely less costs and less QC concerns. Ironically, the fan cowl dimension on HX looks fairly good without the inlet ring.

I back you up on this. I think many of us need to understand that these models are very labor-intensive. Combine that with the fact that they are relatively in low demand, and it becomes evident that these models should cost more, but the industry is largely kept alive by a bunch of aviation nuts who, to some extent, subsidize it.

Also, there are as many of us collectors complaining for more accuracy as there are those who complain about poor QC. Some are even on both bands. Guys, I have been hinting at it for a while: These models don't travel well. The more detail and accuracy you get come at the expense of more pieces scattered around the cradle when you receive the model.

I don't see anyone demanding anything that would pose an additonal risk for QC or transport safety. Au contraire. Three of the four points listed would actually improve both. And while I agree that a new wing is unfeasible it also wouldn't change anything to the worse here.


And just to repeat it one more time:
HX currently offers the best 747 on the market, yes, but it is not as great as some of us have hoped for a new 747Classic mould. Blame NG or Panda for raising the bar that high.
 
I'm happy for discussion Alex however literally everytime someone mentions the HX 747 you're on here complaining that its so bad you can't bring yourself to buy it and earlier in this thread you called the best wing/pylon join on a 747 in 400 scale pitiful. That is just silly.

And as we've established previously there are a tiny number of moulds that meet your exacting expectations so are there 'plenty' or are there about 10 (I assume NG 757, L-1011 & Panda 767, MD-11 and maybe some NG Airbuses and 737s?)?

In relation what you call gimmicks many collectors call them beneficial features that aid sales and as I've said several times here making a 400 times smaller replica is a matter of compromise.

As for engineers. Having spent far too much time with both software and physical engineers I'd argue they are as much of a hindrance as a help! They require constant supervision and shouldn't be left to make decisions on their own :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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I don't see anyone demanding anything that would pose an additonal risk for QC or transport safety. Au contraire. Three of the four points listed would actually improve both. And while I agree that a new wing is unfeasible it also wouldn't change anything to the worse here.

Fair enough, Alex. You are correct. However, it is true that the more detailed a mold becomes, the more delicate it is, generally speaking. And detailed doesn't always equal accurate.

There are conflicting interests at play here, too.

And just to repeat it one more time:
HX currently offers the best 747 on the market, yes, but it is not as great as some of us have hoped for a new 747Classic mould. Blame NG or Panda for raising the bar that high.

I think we have to be type-specific here. NG might have raised the bar with some of their molds, but we are talking about the 747 classics here, and ironically, NG has lowered the bar in this area, especially when talking about the -100/200. If anything, NG is helping the HX 747-100/200 look awesome.

I prefer Panda, but they have a smaller mold catalog. We don't know what a 747-100/200 by them would look like.
 
I'm happy for discussion Alex however literally everytime someone mentions the HX 747 you're on here complaining that its so bad you can't bring yourself to buy it and earlier in this thread you called the best wing/pylon join on a 747 in 400 scale pitiful. That is just silly.
Why do you have a problem with it or how is it different to you missing no opportunity to tell everyone how bad the Phoenix 747 is?
Would you have a problem with it if I'd call your comment about the "best wing/pylon.." silly?
And as we've established previously there are a tiny number of moulds that meet your exacting expectations so are there 'plenty' or are there about 10 (I assume NG 757, L-1011 & Panda 767, MD-11 and maybe some NG Airbuses and 737s?)?
Relevance?
In relation what you call gimmicks many collectors call them beneficial features that aid sales and as I've said several times here making a 400 times smaller replica is a matter of compromise.
You still don't get my point it seems. Maybe that's too technical.
Of cours there are collectors going for gimmicks. I'm just not one of them. But that's not the point.
As for engineers. Having spent far too much time with both software and physical engineers I'd argue they are as much of a hindrance as a help! They require constant supervision and shouldn't be left to make decisions on their own :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
Sadly you edited before I could quote. What are you trying to achieve with this nonsense?
 
Look I could go through all the points and tell you why they are relevant but I can't be bothered. My view is that you have amazing technical knowledge and eye for detail (which I appreciate), but also you are shockingly unreasonable and critical when it comes to 400 scale models and have expectations that few can ever meet. More than that I don't think 400 scale brands should be taking your advice entirely because your need for 100% accuracy is ultimately detrimental. As I said earlier 'perfection is the enemy of progress' and I disagree with you here in relation to this 747 and the way you've discussed it. There are degrees of badness but with you it is just black and white.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Ultimately I doubt any manufacturers are listening to either of us anyway.
 
However, it is true that the more detailed a mold becomes, the more delicate it is, generally speaking. And detailed doesn't always equal accurate.

There are conflicting interests at play here, too.

Absolutely. Detail and accuracy are two different targets when going about a mould design. Adding certain detail naturally reduces dimensional accuracy and those intake rings are a perfect example. With such insert design you blow up wall thickness beyond realistic dimensions due to production tolerances. Such design may work on a big engine like a GE90 in 1/400 but going for a "see through" JT9D is an unfortunate decission in regards to accuracy as this engine simply is too small to get a realistic look - and within a reasonable budget.
I appreciate makers like NG and others going for the "solid" fan design without inlet inserts on engines of that size category.
I think we have to be type-specific here. NG might have raised the bar with some of their molds, but we are talking about the 747 classics here, and ironically, NG has lowered the bar in this area, especially when talking about the -100/200. If anything, NG is helping the HX 747-100/200 look awesome.

I prefer Panda, but they have a smaller mold catalog. We don't know what a 747-100/200 by them would look like.

I was looking at the grand picture. I totally agree that NG's 747 (Classics) leaves a lot to be desired and I blame HX's 747 success on NG's failing to bring a good product to market. I'm still absolutely puzzled why they so terribly failed on the 747.
 
I was looking at the grand picture. I totally agree that NG's 747 (Classics) leaves a lot to be desired and I blame HX's 747 success on NG's failing to bring a good product to market. I'm still absolutely puzzled why they so terribly failed on the 747.

It seems reasonably clear the people running NG now are not the same as when they started. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if the design teams were entirely different for the 747s
 
It seems reasonably clear the people running NG now are not the same as when they started. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if the design teams were entirely different for the 747s
That's what I thought as well.
Usually, mould designs in the old days did have certain design "fingerprints". And I too have the strong impression that some mastermind has left NG's house.
Talking about fingerprints, I always found it interesting that - for example - AC's "British" classics appeared to be engineered to a different (higher) level. I can't remember what AK said back when he showed me his Trident sample but that wing and joints certainly looked like great engineering.
 
I know this is the HX discussion thread, but if anyone happens to have a copy of the Phoenix IL-96 will know just how thin these 1/400 widebody wings can actually be made if there's a conscious effort during the design process to model them that way. I definitely haven't heard of many complain about warped IL-96 wings, but plenty about the recent Aeroclassics A300 re-releases which have significantly thicker wings! If thickness, brittleness, and fragility is such a huge impediment to accuracy, I'd happily accept what Dragon Wings did almost 30 years ago with diecast fuselages and plastic wings. But plastic wings and metal fuselages bad according to some collectors...

Regarding HX's 747, I think some simple modifications could result in a much more accurate look that will satisfy a lot more collectors. I personally have 3 HX 747s and think they've got many great features going for them already. With some minor tweaks that might actually result in less complexity (i.e., solid fans that wouldn't need a separate inlet ring, or a good quality, fine silver paint instead of electroplating the engines), we could be seeing some game-changing models! I speculate what's also happening is that because HX is churning out a lot of models every month, the new changes that have been proposed/teased for down the road just haven't caught up yet with what's already being made on the factory line.

Fingers crossed that your holy grail 747s will incorporate those proposed changes. Loads of iconic 747 Classics and 747-400s to be made, it's just that some of the most iconic 747s, PA's 747s, were made recently with some "interesting" design choices. As long as this mould keeps being used, I'm sure it will be re-released again.

Happy collecting!
 
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