GeminiJets & NG Models are both good...?

[redriveraviation]

Hey all,

I recently saw a discussion taking place about GeminiJets and NG Models. This discussion was floating around many topics with these two companies, and this is what I had to say about the topic:

Please note that this assessment is intended to provide critical thinking, not an ARGUMENT. Thank you.

The bottom line is that all diecast model aircraft manufacturers have their problems. Personally, I have no problems with criticism within reason, and the majority of the remarks from the previous conversation fell into that criteria. The problem lies as GeminiJets has ruined its reputation to the general public so badly that they will continue to be criticized for quite some time. The ratio of 3-5:1 for good to bad is a baseline standard I use for any topic, this one included. For 1 year of bad, it takes approximately 3-5 years of good to return to a reasonable reputation. You can pair that with GeminiJets, NG Models, or any other company. Give NG Models some credit; they surged onto the scene and gained much respect for their quality products and work in 2019 and 2020. As a result of this along with their willingness to release popular aircraft, people likely aren’t going to get upset as fast with QC; compared to GeminiJets' multi-year period of less popular releases, mold build, and QC. Personally, I’m pretty forgiving and give GeminiJets the credit that they deserve, 2021 and 2022 have been much better for them, but they still have a big hole to dig themselves out of from their extended period of troubles. In addition, they really can’t afford to raise their prices anymore. I’m not saying people are going to stop buying, but the Avelo 737-800 for instance is a great example, 3 years ago somebody may have bought that model if it was $35; $41 and a potential NG release for $5 more might be much more enticing to someone. Many elements encompass this topic, but quite frankly the ratio may prove true, and GeminiJets still has some time to go before they can retain some of that reputation back mostly likely; prices will be critical in 2023. They probably can’t afford any more price increases.

What do you guys think about these two companies? Again, the intention of this assessment is to provide critical thinking. I hope to see these companies produce great models in 2023 with both popular and quality models. Also, I hope to make a video surrounding this topic with the intention to look at the best of both companies and really assess why they are both really good in their own ways. Thank you, guys!

Best,
Connor (Redriveraviation)

 

[JJ Skippy]

I definitely agree with this. I know Gemini has had their issues, like the American 737-800 Chrome livery with multiple examples having assembly QC faults from 2019, and the American A320 from 2020 that had the bad color (some American releases still suffer from similar issues). Other general complaints I’ve noticed have been the Boeing 737 and Airbus A320 family moulds due to their bad design (wrong noses, wingflex, oversized engines, etc.). I have noticed that with the Airbus A320 family (mainly the 321), there is supposed to be some angle on the wing, compared to the old NG mould which had almost a level wing which is a bit inaccurate. Gemini/JC’s mould does a good job with the angle, even if it does run a little higher on some releases. It will take some time before Gemini Jets gets out of the hole they’ve dug themselves in due to past faults.

On another note, I will add to the discussion that if you’re going to criticize one, criticize them all and be fair about it. I have seen too many instances where Gemini Jets constantly gets ridiculed for faults, and while some of the criticism is justified, and I can respect that, there are other circumstances that I get irritated with due to it being excessive and unnecessary. Meanwhile, NG’s issues can get swept under the rug with no mention of it. I’m all for criticizing a manufacturer when it’s necessary, and being fair and polite about it, but doing it to where it gets excessive gets really annoying.

Edit - one last note: buy what you like and like what you buy. I know another fellow collector elsewhere who uses this phrase and I live by this.

 

[FunnyDrivr]

I buy a lot more from Gemini Jets due to NG lacking many 1:200 molds and I am pleased to say Gemini 200 is a wonderful brand and I would highly recommend it. If it's a model that interests you no matter who makes it as long as it meets your standards I wouldn't look at the company its unfair not to buy a model because aeroClassic makes it for example.

 

[Purpleplane]

Hey all,

I recently saw a discussion taking place about GeminiJets and NG Models. This discussion was floating around many topics with these two companies, and this is what I had to say about the topic:

Please note that this assessment is intended to provide critical thinking, not an ARGUMENT. Thank you.

The bottom line is that all diecast model aircraft manufacturers have their problems. Personally, I have no problems with criticism within reason, and the majority of the remarks from the previous conversation fell into that criteria. The problem lies as GeminiJets has ruined its reputation to the general public so badly that they will continue to be criticized for quite some time. The ratio of 3-5:1 for good to bad is a baseline standard I use for any topic, this one included. For 1 year of bad, it takes approximately 3-5 years of good to return to a reasonable reputation. You can pair that with GeminiJets, NG Models, or any other company. Give NG Models some credit; they surged onto the scene and gained much respect for their quality products and work in 2019 and 2020. As a result of this along with their willingness to release popular aircraft, people likely aren’t going to get upset as fast with QC; compared to GeminiJets' multi-year period of less popular releases, mold build, and QC. Personally, I’m pretty forgiving and give GeminiJets the credit that they deserve, 2021 and 2022 have been much better for them, but they still have a big hole to dig themselves out of from their extended period of troubles. In addition, they really can’t afford to raise their prices anymore. I’m not saying people are going to stop buying, but the Avelo 737-800 for instance is a great example, 3 years ago somebody may have bought that model if it was $35; $41 and a potential NG release for $5 more might be much more enticing to someone. Many elements encompass this topic, but quite frankly the ratio may prove true, and GeminiJets still has some time to go before they can retain some of that reputation back mostly likely; prices will be critical in 2023. They probably can’t afford any more price increases.

What do you guys think about these two companies? Again, the intention of this assessment is to provide critical thinking. I hope to see these companies produce great models in 2023 with both popular and quality models. Also, I hope to make a video surrounding this topic with the intention to look at the best of both companies and really assess why they are both really good in their own ways. Thank you, guys!

Best,
Connor (Redriveraviation)

I agree with this as well. The majority of my collection consists of Gemini Jets. Overall, I've had very few QC issues with them. I've actually had more QC issues with NG models, but nothing major. (just loose wings, etc.) Both brands have some of the best moulds out there, nothing at all that I would consider an "avoid at all costs"
I also don't think Gemini can really afford any more price increases, I know that will definitely affect my buying habits...I have a very limited budget.

 

[AviationJay🛩️]

I agree with this as well. The majority of my collection consists of Gemini Jets. Overall, I've had very few QC issues with them. I've actually had more QC issues with NG models, but nothing major. (just loose wings, etc.) Both brands have some of the best moulds out there, nothing at all that I would consider an "avoid at all costs"
I also don't think Gemini can really afford any more price increases, I know that will definitely affect my buying habits...I have a very limited budget.

I absolutely agree with this. I’ve also had more QC issues with NG models compared to Gemini jets and I’ve been collecting them for years. I also look forward and am completely grateful that we have GJets serving us with 1:200 scale. That market is revolutionary I would love to see other manufacturers, anticipate more as I look forward for it. I do have to agree on the fact that Gemini jets should not be rising their prices, as it would be an extreme lack of effort from them and as said previously on this thread, they can’t afford it.

 

[JJ Skippy]

I would also hate for them to have to increase their prices. I believe that the more recent price increases could be due to shipping costs across the Pacific having gone up dramatically, but at this point I don’t know if they’ll bring the prices back down. That’s one major point of criticism I have also noticed.

 

[CalAviator]

Came across this transcript from an interview with Elliot Epstein (president of GJ):

"The models were, without a doubt, far more susceptible to damage than those original models we made back in the late ’90s. Back in the late ’90s, I’ll give you a perfect example, we used a single piece of wing. So, you had a fuselage and one long, two wings were all one piece and it was stamped hard into the fuselage. So, it was just the fuselage, a wing. They were a lot more durable. The structure was a lot more stronger. Well, I don’t know, I want to say about 15 years ago one of our competitors decided to go with a left and right separate piece of wing.

By doing that, you eliminated the seam on the bottom of the fuselage of where the single piece wing would … When the single piece wing attached to the fuselage, you had a seam in the front and behind the wing on the belly. Me, personally, I didn’t think it was a big deal because it was on the belly. We had a much stronger model. But in order to answer the competition, we had no choice but to start changing all of our molds to these left and right wing style molds that eliminate the seam. That’s what the collector demanded, that’s what we’ve answered to.

The problem with that is this is the first stage of the weakening of your product. When you have a left and right wing versus a single piece wing, you now have exposed the model to weaknesses. A wing that’s entered without any support into a fuselage is not a strong support. What a lot of people must understand with this stuff is, unlike a plastic bottle airplane, when you build a plastic bottle airplane as a kid, when you have a tube of glue, there’s a fusion process that goes on. The glue actually melts the plastic.

When you’re fusing the wings to the fuselage, it melts the plastic. When it hardens, it’s a fused connection that’s very strong. When you’re dealing with metal and you’re using epoxy or any type of super glue, whatever glue you’re using, you’re only using a surface glue that’s connecting two pieces of metal with a non-fusion connection. It’s just the glue that’s holding part A to part B. There’s no fusion involved. So, it’s basically now just a sticky process, where the glue is sticking to one piece of metal that’s sticking to another piece of metal. There’s no fusion.

You drop that box, whether it’s the US Postal Service, UPS, FedEx, whatever it is, there’s a very good chance you’re going to break that connection of metal to metal, where this little thin section of glue is holding it together. There’s no fusion involved in the structural support to keep these parts intact. Now, with the antennas or flaps down, with all these extra moving parts, the models were extremely susceptible to damage. It’s unfortunate that it’s now become part of a headache in this business.

Fortunately, a lot of our customers have got accustomed to it. They keep a little tube of glue, the super glue and most of these things that come apart are easily fixed. Glue an engine back on, it’s no different than the factory glue in the engine onto the wings. But there are certain damages that do occur that are not repairable by the collector or by the retail, and that’s when the cost issues of returns and problems in that area begin to exacerbate. The more we put detail into these models, the more things that are going to break."

I know it is still upsetting to get a broken model from any manufacturer, but I thought it would be nice to share some insight from Epstein himself.

 

[Jazajia]

NG is a much newer brand compared to GJ, Aeroclassics, and Phoenix. This gives them the advantage to start with an improved product. A good analogy would be Airbus vs. Boeing. When the A320 series came along the 737 was already several decades old so the A320 was aptly built to take advantage of technological advances, whereas the 737 had to be tweaked to do so. We all have seen how things have played out with Boeing trying to catch up to the A320 with the 737. The same thing happens to the model manufacturers. Unless the traditional model brands want to re-invent themselves from scratch, with all the risk and financial effort that it involves, they have an uphill battle against the fresh NG if they want to match their quality and precision.

GJ is particularly affected by this because it seems their main market is also NG's main focus. Unlike Aeroclassics, for example, which still has a stronghold in their market sector.

I love GJ, as it was evidenced in my recent Top 5. But in today's market, if there is a model I want and both GJ and NG have released it, I will most likely stick to the NG version (I can't think of anything that both of them could release that I want so badly to get both versions...).

I can't say the same thing about Aeroclassics, not sure why, maybe it is the charm of the classic liveries that in my eyes goes well with their simpler product. For example, I have both BA Landor L1011-500s, the AC and the NG. I'm not blind, I can see the NG one is much superior to the AC one, but I am happy having both of them displayed side to side. On the other hand, I got rid of my GJ Pan Am L1011-500 and regret immensely not having gotten the NG version instead (I was ignorant at the time). I ended up replacing it with a DW version and considered very seriously getting one of the recent AC ones.

 

[Aviation YYZ]

I personally am a big fan of Geminijets I have never received a broken model and wing flex doesn’t bother me too much

 

[pons399]

As a former 1:200-only guy, I've long considered 1:400s by GJ, JC and PH to be too "crude" for my tastes. I only started collecting 1:400s en masse when NG and (to a slightly lesser extent) AV400 began pumping out models with 1:200-levels of accuracy. Since the comparison is NG vs GJ, I'll use it to illustrate 3 key areas of difference: printing, landing gear, and aerials. I'll be using the 77W as a reference point, mainly because it's GJ's strongest and most modern mould in 1:400.

First, this comparison between GJ (left), the real thing (center) and NG (right) sums up the differences in printing quite nicely. The cockpit windshield on the GJ is too long horizontally, while on the NG it's spot-on. This isn't a QC error on my GJ; other 777s from both GJ and JC have the same issue. The white on the GJ is also a yellowish hue that's not 100% accurate to the actual KAL livery. Conversely, NG's printed detail and color accuracy are second to none in 1:400; reviews from Richard and many others touch upon this.

Second, NG's landing gear is a lot more intricate - pay attention to the strut thickness and general shape. Gear bay doors are more accurate as well. On the GJ they're too "tall" compared to the real thing.


Third, aerials. Most 1:400 brands suffer from oversized aerials, and this is also why others choose to omit them entirely. NG is the only one to include properly-sized aerials. Notice how the Garuda's (NG) aerial is smaller than the Korean (GJ)? It's hard to notice at first, but a few good looks should tell you the difference. Smaller aerials make the NG look far more proportional relative to the GJ.

In sum, NG beats GJ handily in terms of model accuracy. While the best GJ moulds are just as well shaped as the average NG, NG's superior printing, intricate landing gear and proportional aerials make all the difference. These features are present on all their moulds, not just the 777. And do keep in mind that the differences are likely to be more pronounced in general, as lesser GJ moulds have issues with shape, wing angle etc. that just aren't present on their 777.

Now, regarding other factors. NG's QC is no better or worse than GJ, at least from my experience: I've had issues with both. Unlike GJ, NG is quite open to collector feedback and reg. recommendations. GJ's releases are far more geared towards western (American, European) airlines and Emirates, which could be a blessing or a curse depending on your criteria.

TL;DR: NG is better because they make a superior product and have better communication.

 

[Jazajia]

I agree with what pons399 said about the QC. The number of models that I have received with detached parts is pretty evenly distributed among ALL manufacturers and retailers. Ever since I started collecting.

 

[planes_on_a_shelf]

Personally I've only had perhaps 2 cases with NG where the models came with detached wing/rudder/gear - and I'd say they were due to shipping and inadequate cushioning or packaging. (I have a little over 300 NG's in my collection at last count - and post or courier can be pretty rough travelling from European stores to South Asia).
I've never had any issues with models purchased from Jetcollector for instance - their packaging is fantastic with enough space and filling to take care of shocks etc - and they're my top store along with MyHobbyHouse (from where I've never had any issue either) - I've purchased all brands from them thus far (I have close to a 1000 models)
Retailers must check before dispatch - I've had cases where the retailers got in touch with me because of defects and thus the model being unavailable (never for NG - but yes for GJ). They would have replaced any defective model before sending for sure otherwise without my knowledge.
Frankly I'd say that it's an issue with the retailer and the packaging if they send defective models without checking or if the packaging is inadequate.

 

[planes_on_a_shelf]

Now not talking about loose and detached parts (which as I explained above has other variables too) - besides the fact that the buck for shipping defective models stops with the retailer - and ensuring adequate packaging (one layer of bubble wrap doesn't always help frankly)
- I don't think any manufacturer comes close to the consistent level of printing quality we see on Av400 and NG - NG is definitely the winner out there. Fine details, maintaining the template and ensuring that stuff isn't off - and yes acknowledging there's an error when there is (recent NG incidents with the Iran / SAA 747sp & the French Bee A350 were acknowledged by NG and replacements shipped as well)
On the other hand - we know how there's a lack of reliability and consistency with GJ now (the recent Aer Lingus ATR for instance or the National 722 - no real acknowledgement and no replacement). These are glaring errors that went through without being stopped at the factory. I'm frankly very hesitant to pre-order GJ nowadays after the ATR incident - and prefer to wait until the model releases
JC on the other hand continues to be excellent in their print quality and templates etc with their own releases - rarely QC issues as such as we see with what they produce for GJ - unless they're separate factories altogether, or there's a profit margin thing which causes them to undercut.
Fortunately the recent SAS & DLH CRJ-900s have been pretty remarkable I'd say after the AA debacle. (have yet to buy the Air Canada one)
Besides NG will consistently strive for the best and most accurate mould for a type - and name a mould they have - it'll inadvertently, and without doubt, be the best available representation of that real aircraft.
GJ updating or rectifying their moulds recently is problematic - see the Fokkers, Saab, 722 and the A220s for instance. The cockpit template is definitely off on their 777s - and NG has proven that. And neither are GJ/JC investing in the simple task of updating the problematic landing gears on their A330s/343s. It's just horribly wrong and a big turn off as the nose down posture is such a distinctive and delightful feature of those airplanes.

 

[pons399]

I agree with what pons399 said about the QC. The number of models that I have received with detached parts is pretty evenly distributed among ALL manufacturers and retailers. Ever since I started collecting.

Yep, every brand put out some real stinkers during Covid. 2022 releases have all been alright tho, so hopefully it's a sign of things to come.

 

[Mark22]

The biggest issue I have seen in the past year is the number of printing and color mistakes that made me not buy certain models, so it's not only about loose parts during shipment. Buying online from retailers (except a few) has also become a no-go as there is a high chance that the model has noticable issues. At this point I would rather recieve a DIY kit where you have to glue everything together yourself, as I have seen some models with loose wings that damaged the paint around them.

For my example I will use the recent Aeroclassics KLM A330, because I most often buy AC and KLM models. The printing on this model is full of mistakes and has less detail than the 2012 release for whatever reason. The Aerocarribean IL-18 however is beautiful and doesn't seem to have any issues. I really wonder where this inconsistency comes from.

 

[Purpleplane]

The biggest issue I have seen in the past year is the number of printing and color mistakes that made me not buy certain models, so it's not only about loose parts during shipment. Buying online from retailers (except a few) has also become a no-go as there is a high chance that the model has noticable issues. At this point I would rather recieve a DIY kit where you have to glue everything together yourself, as I have seen some models with loose wings that damaged the paint around them.

For my example I will use the recent Aeroclassics KLM A330, because I most often buy AC and KLM models. The printing on this model is full of mistakes and has less detail than the 2012 release for whatever reason. The Aerocarribean IL-18 however is beautiful and doesn't seem to have any issues. I really wonder where this inconsistency comes from.

I think a lot of the inconsistency especially from Aeroclassics is because of the COVID lock downs, Andrew is unable to even travel to his factory to observe operations and fix any QC issues. I've heard him say before that it is extremely frustrating.

 

[Jazajia]

The biggest issue I have seen in the past year is the number of printing and color mistakes that made me not buy certain models, so it's not only about loose parts during shipment. Buying online from retailers (except a few) has also become a no-go as there is a high chance that the model has noticable issues. At this point I would rather recieve a DIY kit where you have to glue everything together yourself, as I have seen some models with loose wings that damaged the paint around them.

For my example I will use the recent Aeroclassics KLM A330, because I most often buy AC and KLM models. The printing on this model is full of mistakes and has less detail than the 2012 release for whatever reason. The Aerocarribean IL-18 however is beautiful and doesn't seem to have any issues. I really wonder where this inconsistency comes from.

I agree, the Aerocaribbean IL-18 are top-notch.

 

[danwashere]

Critical thinking

I tonk that Herpa bestest

Good day

 

[Jazajia]

Critical thinking

I tonk that Herpa bestest

Good day

Herpa will always be the mother of all this, methinks. Sure Shabak and many others were there before, but the Herpa tampo-printed 1:500 models certainly seem to be the earliest known ancestor of modern time 1:400 and 1:200 models.

 

[danwashere]

Herpa will always be the mother of all this, methinks. Sure Shabak and many others were there before, but the Herpa tampo-printed 1:500 models certainly seem to be the earliest known ancestor of modern time 1:400 and 1:200 models.

Haha I ment herpa as a joke

Tbh both are good but I like AV400 aswell

my top is AV400 and NG

GJ/JC solid 2nd