Phoenix Models June 2023 Releases

[YesterAirlines]

Here's my ranking vid. While at first it looks like a pretty awful month with all those 747s things definitely are better elsewhere and it is a month when I could feasibly buy 4 models from Phoenix and I haven't said that in a long time.

 

[thiscooldude]

Here's my ranking vid. While at first it looks like a pretty awful month with all those 747s things definitely are better elsewhere and it is a month when I could feasibly buy 4 models from Phoenix and I haven't said that in a long time.

Especially surprising, since u said a few months ago “In 2023 you could argue that the main reason for Phoenix to exist is simply to produce Asian rubbish for people that don't care about how their models look.” maybe a change of mind then?

 

[YesterAirlines]

Especially surprising, since u said a few months ago “In 2023 you could argue that the main reason for Phoenix to exist is simply to produce Asian rubbish for people that don't care about how their models look.” maybe a change of mind then?

It's still the main reason

Just not the only one.

 

[LeoMuse747]

It's exactly the same mould as JC/Gemini use just with different undercarriage. So it's a middling to fine mould but the Phoenix undercarriage is too long.

Are you sure, Richard? I think PH version looks a bit different and inferior.

This Aeroflot MD-11F is a Phoenix release. It comes with GE engines, but the engine shape looks different from the JC MD-11. Or maybe the pylon is different... Phoenix MD-11s seem to have the engines hanging too low and too forward sometimes.
The tail engine pylon (that part connecting the tail to the fuselage) also looks taller. The winglets look taller on the Phoenix aswell.

 

[1/400collector]

This MD11 house colour is nice

 

[YesterAirlines]

Are you sure, Richard? I think PH version looks a bit different and inferior.

This Aeroflot MD-11F is a Phoenix release. It comes with GE engines, but the engine shape looks different from the JC MD-11. Or maybe the pylon is different... Phoenix MD-11s seem to have the engines hanging too low and too forward sometimes.
The tail engine pylon (that part connecting the tail to the fuselage) also looks taller. The winglets look taller on the Phoenix aswell.

Sorry you're right it isn't the same - but it is very similar. It would be helpful if I looked at my own mould reviews from time to time!!! Mea culpa

I discuss it at the review here, which needs an update actually!!

McDonnell Douglas MD-11 1:400 Scale Mould Review

A review of the moulds available in 1:400 scale die-casts for the McDonnell Douglas MD-11

www.yesterdaysairlines.com

 

[Barison82]

I hadn't thought about that. You're almost 100% certainly correct. What a missed opportunity that was. AC would have really used that mould, which remains really strong.

Definitely! I think it would’ve been a similar situation as per the BB400 747, a tooling he didn’t directly own but had access to being under the same roof. If things went differently that L-1011 mould would’ve gotten a lot of use by AC back then for sure. I agree that it’s still a strong tooling (even stronger since the JC tweaks).

 

[thiscooldude]

Are you sure, Richard? I think PH version looks a bit different and inferior.

This Aeroflot MD-11F is a Phoenix release. It comes with GE engines, but the engine shape looks different from the JC MD-11. Or maybe the pylon is different... Phoenix MD-11s seem to have the engines hanging too low and too forward sometimes.
The tail engine pylon (that part connecting the tail to the fuselage) also looks taller. The winglets look taller on the Phoenix aswell.

Why does that Aeroflot cargo printing look like a schabak!

 

[Jazajia]

Some collectors will overlook all these things and enjoy them regardless, fine, and I can understand why they won’t like to be told what they’re buying is crap. Richard’s direct style reminds me of my other half, she’s an Aussie so I’m used to it, but I’m sure there’s no hate behind it. It’s easy for all this to get lost in translation on a forum however, with differing cultures etc.

Different cultures do exist, but I think you have people that know how to express themselves in a moderate way (like you do Alex, thank you) and people that do not have the same tact across different cultures. I think it is a personality thing more than a cultural thing.

Urgghh don't compare me to him. Klein always argues in the whatboutery, ad hominem attack style. I try to keep it to the models.

As I understand it his anger towards the BBX Tristars wasn't so much about the mould but the fact he had a L-1011 under development himself at the time. The ultimate irony is that I bet an Aeroclassics L-1011 from 2005 would be much better than the Aeroclassics L-1011 he ended up releasing in 2020 or whenever it was!!

You are right that you are more consistent, while Andrew goes in a bunch of different directions, many times contradicting himself, when he is defending Aeroclassics.

However, you are both very similar individuals in how passionate you become when trying to prove to the rest of the world that you are right and showing clear signs of anger/disappointment/frustration/condescendence (or however you prefer to call it) towards anyone who does not share your opinion. In doing so, both of you add toxicity to the hobby. Whether intentionally or not.

None of us are going to ever be 100% right Richard. Please, don't radicalize or politize the hobby, seriously.

 

[MCL2000]

I must say it has been quite amusing to see Phoenix and (to a lesser extent) JC and GJ desperately pumping out garbage before NG releases the same models. From the massive use of the JC/GJ 747SP tooling to Phoenix's announcements of dozens of classic 747s, it has been quite the phenomenon.

However, I do really wonder why JC can't get a grip and use the excellent BB400 tooling to do the same on a decent basis (I do not consider the on and off releases that we're getting to be enough of an effort, and some of the choices have been pretty poor too). We've seen some fantastic models that properly show the potential for this, such as the pair of Air India 747-300s. But instead of making some more good choices, they decide to announce models like the Iran Air 747 not long after it was released by Aeroclassics.

Finally, I do really wish collectors could be more patient, it is blatantly obvious that phoenix is taking advantage of collectors' desperation for these classics to buy their crap 747s, when they could just wait for a few months longer and get the same releases on some decent moulds.

 

[LeoMuse747]

Why does that Aeroflot cargo printing look like a schabak!

Looks OK to me! Maybe the silver could be a little less glossy but I could live with it.

 

[thiscooldude]

Looks OK to me! Maybe the silver could be a little less glossy but I could live with with with

Yeah…. Deal breaker regardless.

 

[Jazajia]

I've heard all these arguments and they simply aren't convincing me. By all means buy them if you want but don't be under any illusion that they are anything but rubbish, rubbish, rubbish.

They were awful - just with nice paint. The 400s are definitely worse than the 200s but don't kid yourself they are rubbish models. Yeah you might not be able to find alternatives but you're still buying shit if you get these.

Herein the problem that bothers me the most about all this, besides the molds themselves and all that...

Richard, you are just coming across (I will repeat for good measure: coming across) as being rude, impolite and extremely arrogant. If I am being fully honest, this attitude you display here detracts so much from all the other great work you have done, that it almost makes it all loose its credibility in my eyes.

And you, and others that share the same attitude love to tell me that it is not personal, so let me take this prime opportunity and ask: After you write something like this, how do you think I feel at say, in a hypothetical scenario, invite you to my house to watch the collection and talk about models, without feeling looked down upon by buying shit and rubbish models?

Not that anyone should care what others think about themselves to the extent that it affects them negatively, but seriously? Can't you find a less toxic way to express your very valid opinions?

Finally, if I was a moderator I would do something about those post, because - let's not fool ourselves and get wrapped around in politics and generational evolutions of speech - that is vulgar and indecent language in any country of the world. Way too much of it is being accepted nowadays everywhere and I don't think it contributes anything positive to society.

 

[Barison82]

Different cultures do exist, but I think you have people that know how to express themselves in a moderate way (like you do Alex, thank you) and people that do not have the same tact across different cultures. I think it is a personality thing more than a cultural thing.

Thank you, being a Libran it’s in my nature to try and balance things, find that middle ground Between strong egos and polarized positions this can be very difficult to achieve so I try and maintain a healthy and respectful distance from it. It’s probably a mix of both cultures and personalities combined, but Aussies and Kiwis are pretty direct in their approach and as I mix with both I’m very used to it

 

[YesterAirlines]

Different cultures do exist, but I think you have people that know how to express themselves in a moderate way (like you do Alex, thank you) and people that do not have the same tact across different cultures. I think it is a personality thing more than a cultural thing.



You are right that you are more consistent, while Andrew goes in a bunch of different directions, many times contradicting himself, when he is defending Aeroclassics.

However, you are both very similar individuals in how passionate you become when trying to prove to the rest of the world that you are right and showing clear signs of anger/disappointment/frustration/condescendence (or however you prefer to call it) towards anyone who does not share your opinion. In doing so, both of you add toxicity to the hobby. Whether intentionally or not.

None of us are going to ever be 100% right Richard. Please, don't radicalize or politize the hobby, seriously.

I don't politicise the hobby Jorge, in fact I go well of my way to be moderate and listen to your views, even incorporate them into my work, however I am not going to behave the way you demand because I fundamentally disagree with you and the way you tell people how they should behave. It isn't a cultural thing I agree, it is a being direct and telling the truth thing. We don't need to agree and not everyone needs to have to agree all the time. People who get upset by other people saying things they disagree with, which are well within the rules of this and any other discussion site, are the problem.

Klein lives well outside all online norms and the rules of any forum or site. He discounts himself with his rants and lies. I do not do that.

I am not being offensive or trying to offend but I am also not accepting statements, which are categorically untrue or lies. It's not about being 100% correct but the statements I have made here are correct. The 747s are bad models. You admit it yourself then come up with other reasons why you buy them. That is fine. Your choice - but don't tell me they are good models for 400 scale in 2023.

If you think that is toxic that is your opinion, however I would argue that your stance on this and other topics where you have not stood up for what is right is far more insidious and toxic. Indeed you often appear to advocate basically self-censorship.

We've had this conversation many times and I appreciate your point of view, however don't expect me to do as you say. If you have legitimate arguments against what I'm saying other than the ones you've raised already please say them but stop telling people what to say and how to say it. That is offensive.

 

[YesterAirlines]

Herein the problem that bothers me the most about all this, besides the molds themselves and all that...

Richard, you are just coming across (I will repeat for good measure: coming across) as being rude, impolite and extremely arrogant. If I am being fully honest, this attitude you display here detracts so much from all the other great work you have done, that it almost makes it all loose its credibility in my eyes.

And you, and others that share the same attitude love to tell me that it is not personal, so let me take this prime opportunity and ask: After you write something like this, how do you think I feel at say, in a hypothetical scenario, invite you to my house to watch the collection and talk about models, without feeling looked down upon by buying shit and rubbish models?

Not that anyone should care what others think about themselves to the extent that it affects them negatively, but seriously? Can't you find a less toxic way to express your very valid opinions?

Finally, if I was a moderator I would do something about those post, because - let's not fool ourselves and get wrapped around in politics and generational evolutions of speech - that is vulgar and indecent language in any country of the world. Way too much of it is being accepted nowadays everywhere and I don't think it contributes anything positive to society.

Shit is a word literally used in my 12 year old son's English lessons. You treat everyone like they are a child Jorge. They are not. Swearing in a conversation about something inanimate isn't offensive. Swearing at someone and calling them it is.

 

[YesterAirlines]

And you, and others that share the same attitude love to tell me that it is not personal, so let me take this prime opportunity and ask: After you write something like this, how do you think I feel at say, in a hypothetical scenario, invite you to my house to watch the collection and talk about models, without feeling looked down upon by buying shit and rubbish models?

I think that you'd be a grown up and accept that I think they are 'not good' and that I can have that opinion because I don't need to live my life to make you feel happy maybe? Why does everyone need to have the same opinion as each other or refuse to discuss any differences - in a discussion forum for crying out loud? I just don't understand why you get upset when I say I think a model is bad and illustrate my opinion with lots of evidence in the process.

Discussion is good as long it is civil and everything in this thread has been civil. If anything the only uncivil things have been the accusations towards me from yourself about toxicity and the other guy accusing me of 'spreading hate', which is laughable. Neither of you have actually raised any points to prove what I have said to be wrong.

 

[1/400collector]

Looks OK to me! Maybe the silver could be a little less glossy but I could live with it.

I think that it's in the correct livery

 

[Jazajia]

Shit is a word literally used in my 12 year old son's English lessons. You treat everyone like they are a child Jorge. They are not. Swearing in a conversation about something inanimate isn't offensive. Swearing at someone and calling them it is.

Then we are in deep shit - which Merriam-Webster defines as: vulgar : in a lot of trouble. - if they are teaching kids that traditionally vulgar words are becoming the norm. Caos is inevitable I guess.

------

Richard, you are correct in a lot of the things you have said. Obviously! everything is correct if seen from the right angle through the right lens. I think my point is that just as much as we want top-notch, 2023, NG-standard molds, we (generally speaking, of course) also want to break away from the very arguments that are taking place on this thread.

I think by now the whole thing has been very well documented:

• Phoenix is releasing exactly what we want (evidenced by this thread, since you love your proofs and supporting facts) on the molds we don't necessarily want.
• JC and NG together could be releasing the same models on the molds we DO want. But they don't. JC because GJ doesn't allow them (this is beyond me), and NG by inherent naiveness of being so new in the business and not understanding the market (if you ask me). I expressed my thoughts about this topic in a more clear way on this thread: Opinion on Phoenix June 2023 Releases.

So why do we have to go through all this again? Didn't we just discuss the same thing last month, and the month before that? I woke up to the Phoenix announcement, and there were already two pages of your posts on this thread telling everyone what they already know, and - if you ask me - what we are tired of hearing.

People got plenty of useful information on the whole Phoenix 747 situation as a result of the April announcement that included the BA Landors. And I think you can already start to see the kind of educated decisions and compromises collectors made in regard to those models. So why keep beating on a dead horse? If the whole Phoenix 747 topic is so aggravating to you why not gather up some investors, or something, and head over to China and solve the issue once and for all? There have been plenty of collector-driven ventures like that throughout the years, some successful, some not so much.

Look at the 1:400 section of DA.C. People can't be bothered to post there anymore, even the 400SH seems to be having slightly more traffic than the 1:400 section of DA.C nowadays. People are tired of arguing about this stuff and I am simply calling you out on it. There are more optimistic/cordial ways of enjoying the hobby while still continuing to express the desire to have those 2023/NG-standard molds.

I am not necessarily telling you how you should express yourself, as much as I'm telling you that you are very likely annoying a lot of people with the whole anti-Phoenix 747 argument. I reckon that you do not seem to care about it, so...

 

[YesterAirlines]

Then we are in deep shit - which Merriam-Webster defines as: vulgar : in a lot of trouble. - if they are teaching kids that traditionally vulgar words are becoming the norm. Caos is inevitable I guess.

------

Richard, you are correct in a lot of the things you have said. Obviously! everything is correct if seen from the right angle through the right lens. I think my point is that just as much as we want top-notch, 2023, NG-standard molds, we (generally speaking, of course) also want to break away from the very arguments that are taking place on this thread.

I think by now the whole thing has been very well documented:

• Phoenix is releasing exactly what we want (evidenced by this thread, since you love your proofs and supporting facts) on the molds we don't necessarily want.
• JC and NG together could be releasing the same models on the molds we DO want. But they don't. JC because GJ doesn't allow them (this is beyond me), and NG by inherent naiveness of being so new in the business and not understanding the market (if you ask me). I expressed my thoughts about this topic in a more clear way on this thread: Opinion on Phoenix June 2023 Releases.

So why do we have to go through all this again? Didn't we just discuss the same thing last month, and the month before that? I woke up to the Phoenix announcement, and there were already two pages of your posts on this thread telling everyone what they already know, and - if you ask me - what we are tired of hearing.

People got plenty of useful information on the whole Phoenix 747 situation as a result of the April announcement that included the BA Landors. And I think you can already start to see the kind of educated decisions and compromises collectors made in regard to those models. So why keep beating on a dead horse? If the whole Phoenix 747 topic is so aggravating to you why not gather up some investors, or something, and head over to China and solve the issue once and for all? There have been plenty of collector-driven ventures like that throughout the years, some successful, some not so much.

Look at the 1:400 section of DA.C. People can't be bothered to post there anymore, even the 400SH seems to be having slightly more traffic than the 1:400 section of DA.C nowadays. People are tired of arguing about this stuff and I am simply calling you out on it. There are more optimistic/cordial ways of enjoying the hobby while still continuing to express the desire to have those 2023/NG-standard molds.

I am not necessarily telling you how you should express yourself, as much as I'm telling you that you are very likely annoying a lot of people with the whole anti-Phoenix 747 argument. I reckon that you do not seem to care about it, so...

We did discuss it before but someone asked the question and I gave my opinion, which triggered you. I can't help that. I run a review site - I review models! It's only an argument because you're making it one.

Before you got involved the conversation was all nice and in general nobody was getting annoyed. You are the one with and creating the problem - again.

Stop telling people what to discuss. Did you take a straw poll of who was annoyed or did you just decide people were annoyed? Because I only saw one person in the entire thread apart from you who was at all annoyed. Everyone else was resigned to these 747s and discussing them reasonably - even me.

I might add that every month Phoenix release on these moulds I am duty bound to discuss them and unless I assume every single person who watches every video or reads every word of mine is the same there will be some repetition. Sorry.