It is Okay to Buy Phoenix's 747s, If You Feel Like...

[pons399]

Phoenix releases are fantastic given my criteria, since they frequently include SQs and KEs. But I'm someone who's super discerning when it comes to models; mould and printing aside, even stuff like flat paint texture, oversized aerials and landing gears that don't roll perfectly bother me. It wasn't like this back when I collected 1:200s, but after fully switching over to 1:400, I've found myself applying to the smaller scale the same standards I used to reserve for larger models. NG and AV400 have shown they're capable of satisfying such lofty standards, so why not? Hence me being rather harsh toward NG's new 748 mould; it isn't perfect, and I know they can do better.

Back to Phoenix, I mostly pass on them due to the subpar moulds. Aeroclassics don't interest me, and while JC/GJ have some great moulds, their level of "refinement" isn't quite up to my standards... Which has resulted in the limitation of my criteria to AV400 and NG only, bar a few exceptions. This works well enough, as it both saves money and allows me to only get stuff I cherish. More power to those with a relatively lenient criteria, but willingly paying for something I know is heavily flawed just isn't something I can get behind.

 

[Barison82]

This has certainly stirred up a big conversation! I’ve not hidden what I think about this mould, but that’s where it ends… just because I dislike the mould does not mean I dislike the people who buy it and enjoy it. We all have different criteria.

Common sense is needed minus the hype and emotion! No need to dig too deep about it all. It’s human behaviour and you’ll very quickly need a good few shovels to get to the bottom of it, which you’ll never do!

I also agree that you can’t tell people what to do - that’s where the mess starts with politics

What I find interesting here, though, is how facts and opinions can become obfuscated…

I see it simply as: the mould is flawed, this is a fact; but after that - it’s how people see it

 

[British Airways fan]

I will be getting the Landor 747 trio for sure, if any other manufacturers come out with the same liveries again then sure I would probably sell the PHX and get the better mould of the two, but all with be definitely nice to join the BA Fleet

 

[keji833]

Good discussion going on here.

PH 747 mould may have some problems, but I would have to respectfully disagree with people who think it is inferior to other manufacturers. The fact is all 747 moulds have major flaws in my opinion, and the PH would already stands very strong compared to a lot of them.

Here are some generic issues:
JC/GJ - forward-leaning front gear, cockpit printing is too big.
BB - undercarriage doesn't all touch the ground (looks awful to me), inaccurate livery representation.
PH - nose shape too round

BB mould is old as well, don't forget. Overall PH 747 mould stands among the best compared to other manufacturers. The only real competitor I could see is NG.

Here is one of my favorite collections -- PH JAL Disney 747, it looks absolutely awesome.

 

[Jazajia]

I think most of us agree with the fact that the Phoenix 747-100/200 and 300/400 molds are poor, I have only seen a handful of people that genuinely think the mold is good, such as @keji833 here. I will say that I totally see where they are coming from though, and I respect their view.

My whole gripe was with the fact that Richard straight-up started telling us that we should not buy Phoenix 747s, period. That is just wrong for the reasons that many have stated, such as @OscarBravo992.

Not all collectors have a black-and-white approach to the hobby.

I am very selective with certain models. For example, I enjoy collecting current Southwest subjects. They are cool little models of an airline that I have been seeing fly over my head for three decades, and are an important part of my collection. However, maybe because of all the available choices combined with the fact that the airline is just not quite there in terms of nostalgia for me, I am selective and pretty much only buy new Southwest models made by NG, and sometimes Panda, and steer well clear of current GJ stuff... Similar to what @Citrus Aviation said.

But that stance goes out of the window with the more iconic subjects that left a lasting impression on me during my childhood and represent a stronger foundation of who I am today, such as the BA Landor 747s.

I have to say that I like that Richard ended up pushing NG to at least throw us a bone. As I mentioned on the NG 747 Classic thread, I think that at this point it is more of a puppet show than anything, but it is better than nothing. And I'm all in for this approach of "let's push the manufacturers and make it happen." Don't just come and tell me that I should not buy a model because it is ugly, I already know it is!

As for the people that honestly like the Phoenix 747s, I said I know where you are coming from and yeah, the mold has some good attributes. the other thing is that the BigBird mold is really not all that fantastic. If you ask me, I think the whole thing is largely a fad, and people that pay $500 for a BigBird 747 are really paying $50 for a model and $450 for the "Your Craftsman 400" lettering on its belly. The BigBird mold is just not 10 times better than the Phoenix one but to each their own.

 

[Tropicalista]

I also read not so nice opinions on PH modules, honestly for me it's subjective, I only have boeing 767s, for me overall they are the best molds, because they have no seams, they are solid and have an excellent quality ratio price.
Coming to the 747, in my opinion too harsh words have often been used, there are people behind it who work on it, as already mentioned, they are models that collectors have been waiting for for years. YEARS. What are the chances in the near future that others will? I think it depends on sales. I personally will not take them 'I'm not interested in the classics.
If it were up to me, those who make the classics would be closed by now. The beauty is that over time everyone can change interests, or have different ideas. I understand that prices increase, details and production standards become ever greater, but maybe sometimes don't you think it's also nice to enjoy what is offered to us?
I have the JC Wings model ei-hea. and I am delighted to have it! because I'm no longer at the airport where it goes, it's an excellent object that brings me back home. It's not perfect? patience. It means a lot to me.
I see that there is bad talk about the JC Wings 737NGs, but I see many people who are proud of the models, who show off, and if they like it, they did very well to get it.
Maybe we forget that it's not a job, and that they are toys, and we should enjoy what we have a little more, without too many whims.
Do you like it? you buy it, you don't like it, you pass by...

 

[Mark22]

I disagree that a mould being good or bad is subjective. It's either accurate to the real thing or it isn't. So far every mould has at least one issue, but Phoenix has by far the most. I used to buy them when the livery was really good looking, such as KLM and Qantas, but I still sold them later as the mould just makes it look like a cheap brand or a toy while paying a premium price. Richard gives good examples in his article about the flaws and I share his opinion.

 

[Jazajia]

I disagree that a mould being good or bad is subjective. It's either accurate to the real thing or it isn't. So far every mould has at least one issue, but Phoenix has by far the most.

It is pretty difficult to argue with this Maark, I agree wholeheartedly. A model made on a bad mold, however, can be subjectively good to some. Certainly not for the accuracy of its shape, but for the sentimental value the livery/type combo holds for a particular collector (maybe this is what Tropicalista was getting at?) Richard's review of the mold (the first time I have seen it critique the mold objectively) is also pretty solid. However, I think he went a bit too far when he started directly saying that people should not buy Phoenix 747s. Of course, he is in his right to express himself, so I took advantage of the same right and tried to counterattack that argument: The mold is terrible; you can still buy it if you wish so after knowing this.

Why do I take it so personally? because when I started collecting 1:400 I had to refrain my self from sharing certain models over at DAC after seeing how other collectors used to harshly condemn the brands that made them etc.

I have to say that I like what Richard did in the end and instead of simply advising against buying these models, he finally got NG to act. A much better approach. Also on his video ranking the April 2023 Phoenix releases, he had a more accepting tone and showed more tolerance toward those that do not share his opinion.

 

[Tropicalista]

You disagree but the facts say otherwise. people take them. PH takes the money. A module may not be perfect but some liveries may never be done by others, so what to do? wait N time or take what the market offers? The answer lies with the consumer. I'm not a fan of the classics I'm not a mega fan of 747s. Personally I love Ryanair but I would never take a 738 JC. I would honestly never say don't buy it or not to another collector. The choice is up to the other person. There is always a limit. Above all you also need to know how to speak, sometimes in my opinion you need to find the right way of communication. I see so many happy collectors of their 738 JCs. Happy them, happy everyone.

 

[Florian]

Part Two:

The new Phoenix-Models 747 releases appears to be in a similar situation where the moulds are objectively bad. However, it seems unlikely these models will be made by anyone else for quite some tine to come. In this case I would say if you really want these models it is worth going ahead and buying them now. If a better versions comes out in say two years the Phoenix versions will be rare by then and one could sell it and just buy the better version at most likely no loose. I am at the point in my collection where I would rather wait for a really good version to come out, but to each his own.

Same here, I totally agree with you. In my opinion a good example here is the last-ever 747 from Atlas Air. This plane is really on my wishlist but I’ll resist going for the Phoenix version that’s already in production because it will be produced very likely in the near future also by NG. And I think that one will be the much nicer model.