Interested in Your Opinion

Which one do you prefer?

  • I prefer not to be charged for pre orders until the models are ready to be shipped.

    Votes: 15 78.9%
  • I prefer to have a choice of payment methods available such as Credit Cards, PayPal and Apple Pay.

    Votes: 4 21.1%

  • Total voters
    19

YankeeVictor400.com

Active member
Hello everyone,

I tried posting this in the Vendor section of MAF, but apparently, that section does not allow polls. Moderators, if you need to move this, please do so. Thank you, and I apologize for the inconvenience.

You probably know I have been trying to find ways not to charge for pre-orders until they are ready to ship. I have been using pre-order forms, which work okay for a small number of orders, but can easily become overwhelming.

I've found a way not to charge Credit Cards until the order is ready to ship, but in doing so, I lost the ability to offer any other payment methods, such as PayPal and Apple Pay. I know older stores manage to offer the same service while continuing to offer other payment methods, but that's not possible with my platform. Hence, I am curious to know what most collectors prefer.

Thank you,
 
I would argue it’s better to just pay later, for the only reason being that some brands take way too long to deliver from the date they announced the release. This specially becomes an issue if you placed an order also containing an already available model.

The store I have been a client for 11 years, scalemodelstore.com from the Netherlands, uses a clever reservation system to avoid this. Basically you reserve a future release, free of charge, and when available you have a two weeks to buy it or you get a penalty. That time period is extendable depending on your customer history (the more models you have bought the more you can extend it without penalty). You can also reserve available models following the same criteria. It’s all made in-web and related to your account. Their policy is this if you wanna have a look.

This helps both customers to secure models, and the store to not have to deal with the usual delays. The thing is, that I believe their website is programmed by themselves (they don’t use any third party builder) so they are able to modify their web as they wish, which I assume is not your case, but maybe it helps and you can implement it too.
 
I regularly shop at Aviation Retail Direct here in the UK and the pre order process just does my head in. You do a pre order and then they take the money from your account, but if it’s after 90 days and you still haven’t received the model they will send the payment back to you and then when the model becomes available, they say they are ready for payment and you can sometimes think (like I have many a times) that I’ve already paid for it.

I do a lot of internet shopping and places like Amazon don’t do this and if it’s a pre order item, they take the money and will release the item when it becomes available which to me makes so much more sense.

This reason has put me off shopping with ARD and I prefer to order elsewhere, however sometimes my hands are tied and I have to order through them, but the pre order process I just find ridiculous.
 
This would be more complex but-

GJ/NG are pretty good about getting their stuff out quick, you can charge customers right away for a preorder from them.

JC/ (sometimes??) Phoenix you have no idea when they’ll come out so if you could reserve an order and be charged later that would be ideal.

Probably way too complicated for a small store but ideally I wish all stores were like this lol
 
Eztoys doesn't charge until the model is ready. I prefer it. I have $AUD1,000 with a shop waiting for orders from mostly JC wings. I try not to order JC Wings until I see them in the wild.

I would rather have a pre-order and then charge.
 
I regularly shop at Aviation Retail Direct here in the UK and the pre order process just does my head in. You do a pre order and then they take the money from your account, but if it’s after 90 days and you still haven’t received the model they will send the payment back to you and then when the model becomes available, they say they are ready for payment and you can sometimes think (like I have many a times) that I’ve already paid for it.

Such a coincidence this literally happened to me today with ARD! I rarely shop with them but suddenly I have spent £204 I thought I'd already spent when I ordered a few months ago on a preorder. Stink!
 
In fact Aviation Center Berlin doesn't charge the fee until the model (or the batch of models) Is available and ready to be shipped! Great thing.
They are great! Been a customer there since 2003! They also handle my NG’s CRP models in a good way.

Steinar
 
This would be more complex but-

GJ/NG are pretty good about getting their stuff out quick, you can charge customers right away for a preorder from them.

JC/ (sometimes??) Phoenix you have no idea when they’ll come out so if you could reserve an order and be charged later that would be ideal.

Probably way too complicated for a small store but ideally I wish all stores were like this lol
I think throwing PHX in the same category as JC that there is no idea when these models come out is a bit of stretch. Their announcements and releases are pretty well timed. Even though I agree that at the current moment they may take a bit longer than usual - but nowhere near JC or Aviation unpredictable.
 
This would be more complex but-

GJ/NG are pretty good about getting their stuff out quick, you can charge customers right away for a preorder from them.

JC/ (sometimes??) Phoenix you have no idea when they’ll come out so if you could reserve an order and be charged later that would be ideal.

Probably way too complicated for a small store but ideally I wish all stores were like this lol
This system I like. However I could see how this would be complicated for some stores especially if say JC randomly ships out a model within one month of its announcement... probably more likely I'll visit the International Space Station than that happening
:LOL:
 
I think throwing PHX in the same category as JC that there is no idea when these models come out is a bit of stretch. Their announcements and releases are pretty well timed. Even though I agree that at the current moment they may take a bit longer than usual - but nowhere near JC or Aviation unpredictable.

agreed 100%
 
I may be the only one, judging by the comments here, but I much prefer to pay when I preorder. Its just simpler and gets payment out of the way. When I decide to preorder a model, that's when I have allocated to money for it. Nothing worse than a tough month, and then someone wants payment for a model I decided I wanted 6 months ago. So far I've only been burned once, with an inflight200 NASA DC-3 i preordered in June 2024, but im still hopefull that one will show up. On the other hand, I preorderd the JC wings 1:400 Ukranian Rescue plane that I couldent find a place to prepay from, and now I have a $50-$70 commitment out there with no idea when that going to come due. Then again im probably not as financially sound as the average collector, I've been out of work for 2 years due a disability.
 
Thanks for all of your replies. All the input has been truly helpful. I am not the type to ask publicly what I should do, but in this case, I thought it was appropriate to get some input from other collectors.

The store I have been a client for 11 years, scalemodelstore.com from the Netherlands, uses a clever reservation system to avoid this. Basically you reserve a future release, free of charge, and when available you have a two weeks to buy it or you get a penalty. That time period is extendable depending on your customer history (the more models you have bought the more you can extend it without penalty). You can also reserve available models following the same criteria. It’s all made in-web and related to your account. Their policy is this if you wanna have a look.

This helps both customers to secure models, and the store to not have to deal with the usual delays. The thing is, that I believe their website is programmed by themselves (they don’t use any third party builder) so they are able to modify their web as they wish, which I assume is not your case, but maybe it helps and you can implement it too.

Thank you so much. This is quite similar to my current pre-order system, so it is nice to see that other stores have been successfully implementing a similar strategy.

The thing is that it takes time for a new shop to fully develop such a practice since it takes ages for pre-orders to arrive. So far, I have only dispatched one batch of "reserved" models via my pre-order forms, and the transaction went very smoothly. Maybe it is just a matter of giving the system time to mature, and for the voice to spread out among collectors.

I regularly shop at Aviation Retail Direct here in the UK and the pre order process just does my head in. You do a pre order and then they take the money from your account, but if it’s after 90 days and you still haven’t received the model they will send the payment back to you and then when the model becomes available, they say they are ready for payment and you can sometimes think (like I have many a times) that I’ve already paid for it.

I do a lot of internet shopping and places like Amazon don’t do this and if it’s a pre order item, they take the money and will release the item when it becomes available which to me makes so much more sense.

This reason has put me off shopping with ARD and I prefer to order elsewhere, however sometimes my hands are tied and I have to order through them, but the pre order process I just find ridiculous.

Thanks. Well, my platform offers an even worse arrangement; the money has to be sent back if the order isn't dispatched within 7 days. While this satisfies the customers who do not like to have their funds trapped for an extended period, it has other complications.

I recall one time I had the same issue with JetCollector, funds were sent back to my CC, and when the model was ready, I had to pay again, this time for real. It wasn't fun going through my CC statements to make sure that I wasn't being charged twice.

In fact Aviation Center Berlin doesn't charge the fee until the model (or the batch of models) Is available and ready to be shipped! Great thing.

Thanks, this is the reason I am investing so much time to see how I can approach this issue. I know a good number of collectors appreciate not being charged for pre-orders until the models are ready to ship. I am one of them...

This would be more complex but-

GJ/NG are pretty good about getting their stuff out quick, you can charge customers right away for a preorder from them.

JC/ (sometimes??) Phoenix you have no idea when they’ll come out so if you could reserve an order and be charged later that would be ideal.

Probably way too complicated for a small store but ideally I wish all stores were like this lol

Thanks, bakejobb. Not as complex as you think (good news for @JJ Skippy as well). As I said above, my platform allows me to hold a payment for up to 7 days, then I need to either capture the funds or release them back to the customer. I could capture the funds for brands with predictable and reasonable wait times, while releasing the funds back for other brands with no timeline.

Pros: The orders get recorded in the system automatically, and all pricing, including discounts and shipping, gets locked in.

Cons: When the model arrives, and it is time to re-bill the customer, they might not want the model anymore and just decide not to pay. This is why a seller protection system needs to be in place, as mentioned by @Redrado above, and as implied by @Rrrk below.

Another con is that I still lose the ability to offer PayPal, Apple Pay, etc. to customers who want/need to pay right away.

I may be the only one, judging by the comments here, but I much prefer to pay when I preorder. Its just simpler and gets payment out of the way. When I decide to preorder a model, that's when I have allocated to money for it. Nothing worse than a tough month, and then someone wants payment for a model I decided I wanted 6 months ago. So far I've only been burned once, with an inflight200 NASA DC-3 i preordered in June 2024, but im still hopefull that one will show up. On the other hand, I preorderd the JC wings 1:400 Ukranian Rescue plane that I couldent find a place to prepay from, and now I have a $50-$70 commitment out there with no idea when that going to come due. Then again im probably not as financially sound as the average collector, I've been out of work for 2 years due a disability.

Thanks for your input. You are not the only one. You do have a valid point, and this is a risk that sellers take with reservations and/or delayed fund capture systems. I know exactly what you mean by this: "Nothing worse than a tough month, and then someone wants payment for a model I decided I wanted 6 months ago."

-------------------------------------------------

Thank you all for your very valuable input. I will use this info to formulate my way forward. As it turns out, it seems that I might not need to modify much at this point.
 
Such a coincidence this literally happened to me today with ARD! I rarely shop with them but suddenly I have spent £204 I thought I'd already spent when I ordered a few months ago on a preorder. Stink!
Yeah it is such a pain and I don’t really understand why retailers choose this method. You book a flight with an airline for a trip in 2/3/4 etc months time and you don’t pay it and then the airline goes “your flight isn’t for another 4 months so you can have your money back, we’ll reserve you a seat and ask for the money the night before your flight”. I just find it absolutely ridiculous and no reasoning or explanation helps me to get my head around why this happens.
 
About shops in UK, USA and Japan (i am client of Cross Wings Japan and friend of Keisuke San) the problem is the Custom fee.
ARD in UK is a great shop and i know the owner vey well, the same for AMS-Aircraft Model Store but, for European customers, the convenience is in the amount of models bought. Explain: i have bought the beautiful Gemini Icelandair A321neo in a shop from UK paying It about 10 euros less respect a giant shop in Holland, including shipping to Italy. Then i have paid 34 euros for the Custom fee. Total price of the model: about 95 euros, 30 euros more than the total price of the shop in Holland (Aviation Center Berlin did not have the model in stock). The same from USA (i don't buy airplane models from USA, of course, but just 1:1250 modern cruise ships) and from Japan. CrossWings Japan has all the exclusive 1:400 and 1:500 models, beauties difficult to buy in Europe: i know when there are enough ANA, JAL, models from Japan airlines and rarities from Far East in general and the 35 euros of Custom fee are well spent.
 
Yeah it is such a pain and I don’t really understand why retailers choose this method. You book a flight with an airline for a trip in 2/3/4 etc months time and you don’t pay it and then the airline goes “your flight isn’t for another 4 months so you can have your money back, we’ll reserve you a seat and ask for the money the night before your flight”. I just find it absolutely ridiculous and no reasoning or explanation helps me to get my head around why this happens.

I guess the ideal method would be to get approval to charge the card whenever the model becomes available without interacting with the customer again after the initial transaction. It seems that many selling platforms do not provide such flexibility, plus it has its own drawbacks.

As to why? Trying to satisfy the collectors that find it unacceptable for a store to capture the funds without delivering the products.

It is different than buying an airline ticket, because in that case you get your ticket right away, it might be for a flight several months in the future, but you get it right away. When a collector pre orders a model, in theory they want the model right away. Currently, wait times are out of control.
 
Aviation Center Berlin in my opinion is perfect:
1) preorder;
2) when the models are available the staff send you a mail with the list of the preordered models (now available) so you can check and add or delete models if something changed in your mind (or in your wallet!);
3) once confirmed the staff send you PayPal invoice;
4) payment;
5) shipping with tracking number.
Now i don't know if this is just for fellow clients (since few years ago i spent about 700 euros per month in models!), but i think this Is the best way to run a shop and to make client happy.
ACB shop gives from 10 - 20% discount on each model, depending on what type of client you are and on manufacturer. Since few years ago i had 30% discount on each Herpa model, then Herpa started to increase prices even for the retailers and everything finished.
About Gemini and Phoenix i have 20% discount, 10% for NGModels.
 
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